To Be Content Is To Admit Failure - Luke Bonner

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the worst advice I ever got. Our guest today is former professional basketball player and current head of partnerships for book seats, Luke Bonner. Growing up in a family full of top level athletes, Luke had plenty of people in his life trying to help him make it to the highest level in sports. In this pursuit, it was his misfortune and our good fortune that he got some of the worst advice he's ever got. And we get to chat with him on our podcast today. Luke, thanks so much for being here. [00:00:37] Speaker B: Thanks so much for having me, Luke. [00:00:40] Speaker A: This podcast doesn't beat around the bush. It's pretty simple and straightforward. Tell us about the worst advice you ever got. [00:00:46] Speaker B: The worst advice I ever got was to be content is to admit failure. [00:00:54] Speaker A: Ooh. Let's unwrap that a little bit. Okay? Give me the context of how and when you got that advice. Just elaborate on that a little bit. [00:01:02] Speaker B: So I am a former basketball player. I was an elite level basketball player throughout high school. My older brother played in the NBA for eleven years. My older sister was a pro basketball, high level college basketball player as well. And I got this advice when I was probably around 15 years old. And it was from an older player who was in college who I. Who I really looked up to. And it was given to me in the context of sort of not resting on your laurels, because I was. I had reached an age where, you know, I'm 15 years old, I'm probably about six foot, ten inches tall. And the advice kind of came in the sense of like, like, don't. Don't be satisfied with where you're at, right. And so if you. If you feel like you've made it prematurely, you're actually admitting failure to future. [00:01:58] Speaker A: Success as a 15 year old. How did you receive that? [00:02:03] Speaker B: Oh, man. I took it to heart. It was a real, like, it set me on this course of, like, teenage hustle bro mentality, right? And I even. I took it so far that I was actually. I remember being in high school, I took a public speaking class and I gave. I delivered a speech to my class that perpetrated this advice because I felt like, you know, I don't deserve to enjoy any of the success I'm having along my journey because that will put me at risk of being the eventual NBA superstar that 15 year old Luke Bonner knew he would one day become. It's just something that, like, it always stood out to me. And when you guys first reach out, it immediately came to mind for me because that it's something that, like, it, it had such an impact on me at that age. I was at that. It's something I've come back to as a grown up, navigating a career and trying to remind myself of successes. And I think acknowledging progress and little wins along the way is actually super helpful in driving you towards future success and making yourself believe that you can accomplish more. In hindsight, it's probably more of, like, a damaging mentality. And I'm like, I was the Gatorade player of the year for two years in high school, and, you know, I was. I was very good. And I think, like, in, in that moment, at that time, I never realized that, like, I always thought I wasn't good enough. You can acknowledge that you're great at something and still become more at the same time, and that's probably a more fun way to navigate life. [00:04:01] Speaker A: So, circling back, so you got the advice. It sort of started as, like, a motivator. You embraced it and you were buying into it. When did you start to feel, hey, that's not the best advice? [00:04:14] Speaker B: It was probably, like, when I was in my thirties. Oh, wow. [00:04:17] Speaker A: Wow. [00:04:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:19] Speaker C: Like, was there a moment that you were like, this is the. This, you know, that was. [00:04:25] Speaker B: That's. [00:04:25] Speaker C: That's not only not good advice, that's the worst advice I ever got. [00:04:33] Speaker B: So I'm a little bit, just like, my professional background is a little bit wonky because I went after college, I went and I played basketball in Europe, and I transitioned into, like, working in advertising when I was 27 years old. So I was a 27 year old Internet. And I think, like, for those first five years of no longer playing basketball to get a paycheck, I did a lot of cool shit that I didn't realize was, like, actually, like, pretty impactful and really valuable for the company I was at for a bunch of things, right? And I was, you know, going through. I got contacted by, like, a recruiter or something and about a potential job opportunity, and I had to, like, come up with, like, a resume and all that sort of stuff for, like, the first time in my life, really. And that's when I kind of realized, like, writing everything down. Right from that, I'd done. I'd realized, like, wow, I've actually done a lot of, like, really special stuff. And I think that's when I sort of thought, thought back to this advice and realized, like, I need to learn to acknowledge my successes. That's an essential part of having a successful career in that it's not only bad advice, but it's also important to be able to get comfortable acknowledging your wins along the way. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Did you feel like you had failed? Like, when you looked at what you were doing because you were trying to figure out what's next, do you recall feeling like, I didn't make it? I feel like I failed. [00:06:08] Speaker B: I wasn't sure if I was walking away from something, like, too early. I didn't know if, like, if I was walking away before my moment was going to arrive. One thing I learned through sports is that luck is a huge factor in everything. And just, like, winding up in the right place at the right time, totally, so to speak. Right. Like, my brother was one of the first three point shooting stretch big men in the NBA. If he had played ten years earlier, I don't know that he's ever an NBA player. Right. Because that wasn't valued at the time. And for me, I was playing in Lithuania. I had teammates who are Americans who got cut from my team while in my position, and my team always kept me, and those players ended up finishing the season in the NBA. So I always kind of, like, I never viewed it as, like, I failed. I viewed as the difference between me having a career in Lithuania and having a career in the NBA. The margin is razor thin, but I just wasn't. I did view it as, like, is this the right time to move on? I always had doubt around that. I wasn't sure. [00:07:23] Speaker A: Yeah, Luke, the premise for the question was the kind of, the advice is steeped in. Well, if you don't just keep trying, strive for the next thing, strive for the next thing. Strive for the next thing. Otherwise, you're admitting failure. Right? Being content admits failure. [00:07:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And to that end, I guess, like, I hadn't. You just made me realize this, like, in this exact moment, honestly, is I was a professional basketball player in Lithuania in my twenties, in Hungary. I played in the G league in Austin, Texas. And when I was playing basketball and getting paid money to play basketball a few hours a day and live in Lithuania, which is a really nice place, I was very miserable. Like, I was not happy at that time. I always felt like, I need to get somewhere else. I have to get out of here. I have to get somewhere else. Instead of just being like, this is pretty good, and this is a very unique life experience that I'm gonna have with me forever, and that's going to make me feel comfortable settling down as I get older. Right. Cause I've had all these experiences. [00:08:24] Speaker C: Well, they're not mutually exclusive. You know, you can do both. You can be happy for the success you've had and still want to achieve more. You know, I think that's where the rub is. [00:08:36] Speaker A: I think that's interesting, though, because I do think you're right. But I also think people who have achieved incredible success, like the height of heights, of heights, I bet they would say I wasn't enjoying it in the moment. [00:08:48] Speaker B: So I also think there's this natural phenomenon where you're gonna. You're going to move the goalposts on yourself, because wherever you're at is going to feel normal, because you are yourself. You are you no matter where you are, right? So, like, I think about that sort of thing, too. Like, when I was in college, I. My freshman year, I was at West Virginia University. We played. We had an incredible run. Played in the big east championship, which is, like my dream at the time in MSG, all that sort of stuff. We were one point away from making the final four. Right. You feel like you're going to experience it some sort of way. But I was part of this incredible, historic run for this program, and we'd come back from games, and there'd be 20,000 people waiting in the parking lot for us at the arena to fear us going back to our dorms. And I felt like, this doesn't count. No matter what you achieve for success, I think it's going to feel normal. And I don't know that you ever feel like I made it. So, like, I think that's not a problem regardless. [00:09:54] Speaker A: One of our founding partners, Jim Howard, he coined a phrase that was avoid CAG. C a G is an acronym, stood for three things, but the first letter was complacency. Avoid complacency. It has some alignment to being content. If you get content, maybe you get complacent in sports. Clearly, that's a major problem of it. How did that translate as you were transitioning out of sports into what you do today and. And the business you lead and the life you lead? [00:10:21] Speaker B: What I. What I realized is that feeling good about how far you've come does not impact how far you can go. I have been a startup founder, and that's like. And I've raised money. I've done all that sort of thing, and there's a lot of challenges around that, and it's chaotic, and it's. And I found that I needed to make time for myself to sit back and think about the day before. I came up with the idea for my. The first time, I founded a business. Right. And then thinking about all of the pieces that were operating at that moment. And that's sort of like how I kept my sanity. And some of this, like, it's. It's. It's stupid. But, like, I live in New Hampshire and, like, a wooded area, and as an adult, I've gotten really into, like, having our wood stove burning, which means I split wood, stack wood and whatnot. And my first year doing that was, like, the most frustrating experience ever. It feels like if you've never done this right, you have, like, a massive pile of wood and you spend hours stacking it, and you look at that pile and it looks the fucking same as it did. And so this taught me. This actually, like, was like, a profound lesson for me in everything I do is, like, I never look at the pile, right, that I have to still stack. I look at the pile that. The beautiful, organized wood that is stacked neatly there and focus on that rather than the mess that still needs to get organized. [00:11:50] Speaker A: I love the analogy. [00:11:51] Speaker C: It doesn't mean you're not going to finish it. I mean, that's where. That's the difference in the thing. So you're a dad. Bonners are all athletes. They're all good athletes. Your kids are probably going to be athletes. Do you think you're going to give them this if they've got NBA aspirations? Are you going to say, you know, be happy every day, or are you going to say, you know, you got to work hard? How are you going to phrase it? [00:12:10] Speaker B: I don't know, man. I'm figuring that out. I think for now, my focus is my kids are very active already. They're super young. And I would say there's external factors in youth. Sports are very different than when I was a kid. Like, my son plays indoor soccer and one of the teams already, like, they got a camera recording the games and they upload it to whatever stuff, and it's like, these are eight year olds, man, without any of that. [00:12:43] Speaker A: He started his huddle video already at eight. I love it. [00:12:46] Speaker B: Right, right. So I think my advice to them, like, for where we're at right now, is to have fun. That's basically it. Like, I want to make sure everyone's having fun and learning to just, like, appreciate activity. And then if there is a desire to do more with sports, whatever it is, obviously there's an element of you're going to have to work your ass off. Like, it's not going to come easy, but I think that for me coming up, I probably overdid it. I think I won't push them to, to be so modest. That was like, a huge thing in my family, was like, being humble. And that actually, I think, is like, like part of why this advice stuck with me, because it. It's like performative humility, in a sense. Right. I'm not, like, overly boasting anything I've accomplished or whatever. [00:13:40] Speaker C: It's gotta be hard to get a job. There's talk about yourself as an adult. [00:13:45] Speaker B: As an adult, like, yeah, I want you to be confident. I want you to see what, like, you can achieve. And it's okay to realize, you know, playing at the highest level or whatever it is. Like, it is attainable. Like, it's important. It is important to have that, that understanding and that mentality. [00:14:05] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, you want them to pursue their dreams. You want them to know what it takes to achieve your dreams, but you want them to enjoy the ride. I think your experiences put you in the perfect place to advise your kids properly. I took the path you're considering taking, and this is what I experienced. And so the challenges you experience, that the pain you experience lead you to advise very well on that. [00:14:31] Speaker B: Right. Like, don't be a dick about it, but it's okay to own what you're good at. Yeah, that's okay. [00:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:35] Speaker B: Like, I don't like to fake it till you make it sort of mentality, but I do think, like, there's, there's something to be said about. You need to get comfortable in understanding what you're good at and be confident in talking about yourself as you navigate whatever career you're in, especially if you're going to go the route of trying to start your own thing, run your own thing. As an entrepreneur, if you're a founder, you yourself are an essential piece to your company's story. So that's going to be woven into everything. [00:15:21] Speaker A: I almost feel like it's like taking a piece of paper and splitting it into two parts. On the left side is all the qualifications you have, the experiences or whatever, but then the right side is the character. There's a fine line between being great at what you do and being not humble, but being approachable. Like being somebody I can relate to. Right. And so if you only live on one side of that sheet of paper, you're not going to achieve what you can achieve if you're able to really live on both sides of that sheet of paper, being a good human being, while at the same time being extremely experienced and extremely qualified. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Right, right. And I think that a lot of times I have to remind myself that whatever your expertise is, again, it's going to feel normal to you. Right. So it might not feel special. So just, like, reminding yourself that that's something that might feel easy or come easily to you, that doesn't mean that it's not something special to someone else. [00:16:15] Speaker C: Yeah. That's kind of what I took from this podcast myself. I think about, you know, hey, look, I get to record podcasts and make things on my computer and take pictures and make videos. I'm like, that's fun. That's a fun thing. Like, enjoy it. [00:16:27] Speaker A: Yeah, but we're not going to be content until we beat smart list out. It's not a failure, though, right? [00:16:34] Speaker C: It's not a failure. [00:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, we're enjoying. [00:16:37] Speaker B: Yeah, having me on is definitely gonna help help get those numbers up. [00:16:40] Speaker A: That's right. Exactly. Well, but we're enjoying this. That's sort of. The point is, while we're doing what is, I guess, really hard to do and is really unique. I mean, I'm gonna count it. What am I doing this for? Like, this doesn't fit naturally with who I am. But I know why you're doing it. Tell me. [00:17:01] Speaker B: Cause you cannot deprive the world of your glorious voice that you got going on. [00:17:08] Speaker C: That's getting in the butt. [00:17:09] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's interesting. Cause I keep going back to this advice you got, and it's not necessarily all bad. Cause if I was content to just doing what was working at our business and not trying new things, I don't know that it would be a failure, but I'm not sure we would be achieving as much as we probably will now. How do you reconcile that? How do you reconcile contentment leading to moving that goalpost or raising that ceiling and it not being looked at as failure? It seems like a fine line. [00:17:37] Speaker B: I think the two things are just not related at all. [00:17:40] Speaker A: Okay. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Is the way I've, like, come to think of things. Right. You can always strive to be more and be happy with where you're at. Like, they're not. They're completely separate things. You don't need this performative, like, I'm gonna go get it kind of. Kind of mentality. And I do think that was, like, more prevalent just in sports, even, like, 20 years ago. Right. Like this. Like, yeah, like, you lose a game, you got to be silent on the bus. Nobody says a word. This is miserable. You lost a game, you don't just. Whereas, like, now things, like, some people don't like it, but, like, I'm like, this is a way healthier way to be, like, you lost the game, you compartmentalize that, you move on, you live your life, and you don't need to make yourself feel dissatisfied as a motivator. And, in fact, that is the worst motivator I can think of. I think part of the. One of the major flaws with this advice is that it makes you focus narrowly on one perceived goal, and then you miss all the other stuff. Right. Like, life is dynamic. There have been times where I've, like, I think about, I should have been an NBA player. I've got the build, I got the skills, like, all that sort of stuff, but I never was. So I think it's damaging to focus on, like, one goal as, like, all or nothing, or as the source of your happiness. [00:19:04] Speaker A: That's well put. I think setting goals is great. Making everything your happiness, all things rely on the successful outcome of one thing is not a great piece of advice to follow. Yeah. Well, Luke, we are so thankful for you joining us today. This has been great. I know that everybody listening to this episode got a lot out of the worst advice you ever got. So thanks for sharing it with us today. [00:19:33] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, JB. [00:19:35] Speaker A: It's interesting. This is someone who got this advice when he was 15 years old. It was someone he really looked up to, but it really turned into a dangerous scenario that really, Luke has battled for many, many years. [00:19:51] Speaker C: Yeah, I really liked that. Uh, we have somebody who came on, got the advice, and took the advice. You know, he was 15 years old, and he was. He said he was, like, in his early thirties before he realized, you know, this is actually terrible advice. A lot of people kind of picked it up right away, you know? [00:20:05] Speaker A: Oh, no, he bought it hook, line, and sinker, and he thought it was exactly what he needed to do. Why? Because he saw this person, he respected this person, he looked up to this person, and ultimately, what it ended up doing is creating a damaging mentality in him because he really always thought he wasn't good enough. [00:20:26] Speaker C: Right. Two time Gatorade player of the year, one point away from going to the final four in college. He's playing professional basketball, getting paid to go to Europe and all these things, and he's still like, well, nope, can't be happy. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah, no, you're not allowed to be content with any, any of your accomplishments because that's a failure. And I think another important point in all of this is that this also made him not recognize the good things he was actually really doing and the impact he was having, because he continually avoided thinking about that because you're a failure if you think about that. [00:21:03] Speaker C: Right. You tried to kind of get him to see the other side, like, okay, so being content can lead to complacency and you maybe don't reach your goals. Uh, did he convince you to look at it his way? [00:21:13] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a very interesting point. Right? It's this. Feeling good about how far you've come, as he said, does not impact how far you can go. Right? [00:21:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Great for him to stick to his guns, too. It's like we were like, hey, wanna play devil's advocate? And he's like, no, do not relate these two things together. They are not the same. [00:21:31] Speaker A: They're not the same. And. And can you achieve your dreams while still enjoying the ride along the way? Frankly, I'm not sure any dream is worth achieving if you hate your life all along the way. But I think a lot of people maybe feel like it's the sacrifice you have to make in order to achieve the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. [00:21:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Hopefully some people who are in that boat who are thinking, you know, I do want to make it to the next level in whatever field that they're in. Listen to this episode and think, you know, I should enjoy my wins more, and that shouldn't affect whether or not I make it or whether or not I get to where I want to go. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully our audience learned a lot from today. I know. I sure did that. You know, you can. You can strive for a lot, you can accomplish a lot, but if you don't enjoy the ride, you can make yourself pretty miserable along the way. That about wraps up this week's episode of the worst advice I ever got. I want to thank all of our listeners, and if you're enjoying what you're hearing from us, be sure to give us that five star rating. Be sure to come back next week and tune in for another episode. The worst advice I ever got.