Don't Start a Bar For Dogs - Stephen Ochs

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of the Worst Advice I Ever Got. I'm your host, Sean Taylor, along with my producer, jb. Today our guest is Stephen Oaks. Stephen is a former Florida State college baseball player who took a big swing after his athletic career by launching a business that most people thought was a joke. He's the founder of Fetch Park, a dog friendly social club that combines community cocktails and canines in a way that somehow just works. Today, Fetch park has multiple locations, a cult following, and even a few human marriage proposals under its roof. [00:00:42] Speaker A: Hey, Stephen, thanks for joining us. [00:00:44] Speaker C: Thank you for having me, Steven. [00:00:46] Speaker A: Let's jump right in. Tell our audience the worst advice you ever got. [00:00:49] Speaker C: The worst advice I ever got was from my mom. Don't open a bar for dogs. [00:00:56] Speaker A: Don't open a bar for dogs. [00:00:58] Speaker D: That's good advice. [00:00:59] Speaker A: I think I never in a million years, when we thought about doing this podcast, thought that the worst advice someone would have ever got was don't open a bar for dogs. But we're digging in. So your mom gives you this advice. Tell me what's going on and how this all came up. [00:01:15] Speaker C: Growing up, my parents were dog breeders. I ran dogs since I was 2 years old. So I can remember. I grew up Florida State fan. I played baseball at Florida State, went out to see them playing the national championship game in 2013. Jamis years, someone had roped off their tailgate to let their dogs run around. And at the time, I was doing communications and branding in the liquor space. And that was a light bulb moment. I was like, look, I know dog behavior. I know branding and communications and. And liquor. Like, this is what I was meant to do. I'm gonna start a dog park bar. At the end of the day, dog parks are so antisocial. You go there, you sit on your phone, you don't talk to anyone. I really wanted to create a social environment where people would get off their phones, meet their neighbors, and socialize just like their dogs in a safe environment. So the whole concept of Fetch was I really wanted to create the happiest place someone could experience in their day. [00:02:10] Speaker A: So. So this idea comes to you and you think, I'm going to dig a little more on this. And you seek, you tell your mom about it. [00:02:18] Speaker C: I actually made my parents sign NDAs. I'm gonna be honest with you. I. I was so, like, I knew nobody. I. I knew when I, like, had this light bulb moment that there was nothing like it. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Okay, so you go to mom and dad and say, I want to pitch something to you. But first, sign this legal document. [00:02:35] Speaker C: Honestly, I did not pitch my parents for a while. I'm gonna be honest. Like, I, I knew they, they would think it was crazy. So they were probably like some of the last people I, I told about it. [00:02:45] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. So you go to your parents and you say, I've got an idea. I want to start a bar for dogs. What? And your mom says, don't. [00:02:56] Speaker C: My mom's an HR manager. Very safe, very inside the box, you know, why are you trying to leave a good job with benefits to start this crazy idea? [00:03:07] Speaker A: So did you listen to her? [00:03:10] Speaker C: I don't think I listen to my mom much at all, to be honest. But, you know, my mom was in my ear since high school, like, hey, you need to focus on stuff outside of sports. It's not going to get you anywhere. So in my eyes at that point, it was, it was more of the same. [00:03:25] Speaker A: So she says, don't start a bar for dogs. Was she the only one saying, don't start a bar for dogs? [00:03:30] Speaker C: I'm pretty sure every bank I went to is. I mean, how's it start? [00:03:34] Speaker D: So you got to go get money, right? Yeah. [00:03:36] Speaker C: It took five years to get the first fetch and running. I heard no from 86 banks. You know, every. [00:03:41] Speaker A: Whoa, whoa, whoa, 86. [00:03:42] Speaker C: I was going to, like, South Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama. I was going everywhere. Every bank was the same thing. You know, I love this concept. And then we get to underwriting and they're like, well, where are you getting these numbers from? Because there was nothing to compare it to New York or California. So, I mean, the banks were a dead end route. So I ended up having to rely on kind of athlete friends of mine to. To fund the first park. [00:04:06] Speaker A: A lot of no's. [00:04:07] Speaker C: A lot of nose. [00:04:08] Speaker A: A lot of no's. A lot of no's. Discouraging. [00:04:11] Speaker C: I think the athlete mentality kind of pushes you through that, you know, like, you're not going to let a no stop you if you're, if you're determined. And, and it never really phased me. You know, looking back, you start looking through all the no's you got and you're like, okay, that was a crazy amount. [00:04:28] Speaker A: But I mean, but five years, a long time. Yeah. Told no. [00:04:33] Speaker C: You know, I'm pitching this idea, the city of Atlanta, and you want to talk about not being able to think outside the box? Cities are not going to think outside the box. I'm trying to pitch, you know, on renderings, this crazy idea to city council, to NPUs. I was going to the neighborhood planning and there was a group that got together and they were convinced that this was a fake idea. And I was trying to rezone the site to commercial so I could put a gas station there. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Wow. Wow. So it's so not believable and so not adopted that people are actually inventing conspiracy theories that you're really secretly building against. [00:05:09] Speaker D: Yes. [00:05:09] Speaker C: Full neighborhood conspiracy theories. [00:05:12] Speaker D: This can't be real. [00:05:15] Speaker C: So I mean, at that point I still had a full time job. I hadn't quit my job yet with the liquor stores. And like articles came about. Fetch. We were in FSR magazine in like 2016, a national publication about this crazy idea. AJC was pushing stuff. So like I'd awkwardly go to my boss and be like, yeah, I've been doing this on the side. [00:05:38] Speaker A: So now you're all in. I mean now people have advised you don't do this. But words gotten out. And how does that, does that change any part of your drive, your outlook, your is. Is there any desperation because now you don't have your full time job? [00:05:52] Speaker C: No. I mean as far as that, I was all in from day one. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:55] Speaker D: So you're opening up. So let's go to that day. So okay, you finally like you've got through the hurdles. [00:06:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:01] Speaker D: How was that? What's that? What's that first day look like? [00:06:04] Speaker C: You know those first two. Call it two years. I was in that park for like 18 hours a day. I was in that park so much, filling up like tubs, like water bowls and stuff. I actually got trench foot. Like I went to the doctor. I have a high pain tolerance. Like I've broke my nose twice. I had to stop playing baseball cause I cracked the ball, my foot. But it got to a point where I couldn't walk that I go to the doctor. You know, it's never good when they bring in another doctor and they start laughing. They're like, I had trench foot. Like something you don't like you haven't seen since like Vietnam. [00:06:36] Speaker D: Yeah. Like World War I. [00:06:37] Speaker A: What is trench foot? [00:06:38] Speaker C: Basically, when your foot is so is wet constantly and doesn't have a tendency to dry. [00:06:46] Speaker D: They were like, I haven't seen this in 40 years. Yeah. Wow. [00:06:49] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. First of all, even before we go deeper on this, can you just explain to our listening audience Fetch? [00:06:56] Speaker C: Yeah. So I mean, one I like to call Fetch a dog friendly social hub. I want you to feel comfortable coming to the park whether you have a dog or not. Like I truly wanted to create the happiest Place you could experience, you know, call it your daily serotonin and therapy. Think of it like a gym membership. Every dog that comes in is either buying a day pass or they're on a. They're a member. And that is so we can have a profile of your dog. Every vaccination is on record. Donors sign liability waivers saying their dog is friendly and social. We have cameras throughout, so dogs that show aggressive behavior are banned. I really wanted you to be able to come and have a peace of mind that you're, that this was a safe place for your dog to hang out. And then for the people you know, you come in. We have wi fi throughout, we have shading, we have heaters so you can come work from the park. We have a Airstream that you know is our F and B component. Coffee in the mornings, beer, wine and liquor afternoons, evenings we have TVs, we have a Jumbotron. And then of course, you know, to really build that community, we have events, you know, we have weekly events that could be trivia to live music to. Every month we do a barks and banter live standup comedy. We do singles nights called could it Bay. I mean it's really. I wanted to have a community builder and it's been awesome to see. We've, we've had 14 engagements at the park since the parks open. So, you know, that's really the spe. This speaks volumes to the community that we've built. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Human engagements. [00:08:16] Speaker C: Human engagements. No dog engagements. [00:08:18] Speaker A: Although. [00:08:19] Speaker D: We don't know. [00:08:19] Speaker C: Yeah, that's fair. We don't know. [00:08:22] Speaker A: Okay, but when you've got trench foot and you're filling tubs of water, are you already thinking about Jumbotrons and events or how it's gotta, this had to be hard, man. This had to be really hard with no bank support. And really, to be fair, you had earned the trust of your teammates, these investors. Otherwise maybe you don't get that support. So it had to be hard. [00:08:45] Speaker C: Yeah, but nothing worth doing is easy. [00:08:47] Speaker A: I don't, I can't disagree with that. [00:08:49] Speaker C: You know, you, everything that is hard, you're just going to be able to enjoy more at the end. [00:08:55] Speaker D: So you're obviously, you're in growth mode now. Did you start with I'm going to be. I want to make a bunch of these or you want to think like when is the. When, when did that. [00:09:03] Speaker C: No, I mean from day one, the goal was always I want fetch to be across the country. I, I, you know, this is something that can be a community builder. It's needed in cities that have no green space. I always viewed this as something that I wanted to bring across the. I created this concept. I really, my goal was to fully understand the model before we step foot out of Georgia. So that's why we have, you know, four parks all kind of in different areas of the city to fully understand where these parks need to be to thrive. [00:09:32] Speaker A: So the fact that word was out maybe as a risk to others to take your idea or run with it actually gave you some good press, too. It actually got the word out nationally pretty quick. [00:09:43] Speaker C: Yeah. Which, look, I mean, I. Competition did come way quicker than I was anticipating. But at the end of the day, I think what separates Fetch is one, fetches me to a te. You go into the parks and they look like a minor league stadium because baseball was my life. No, baseball and dogs. And. And I feel like a brand that speaks truth will always stand out. And two, you know, I understand dog behavior. I think a lot of people are getting into the space, see dollar signs. They don't, they don't understand what they're signing up for. You know, if. If you are not strict on vaccination requirements, if you're not strict on actually banning aggressive dogs, you know, it can turn rough quickly. [00:10:24] Speaker D: Have you seen anybody try to start this and fail? [00:10:28] Speaker C: Our biggest competitor that started up maybe two and a half years after we opened, who blatantly admitted he got the idea from fetch. I mean, he raised $17 million and they filed for bankruptcy three months ago. [00:10:43] Speaker A: They need to. [00:10:44] Speaker D: They need to listen to your mom. [00:10:45] Speaker A: Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. How do you stay ahead of your competitors? [00:10:50] Speaker C: I mean, I think our authenticity. I think, you know, we try and stay unique. I've always wanted to create events that people. What is something you've always wanted to do with your dog that you couldn't. You know, we've turned one of our parks into a high end fashion show. We had one of our parks that turned into an art gallery. We. I mean, we had an original Picasso, two Warhols in the park. You know, I think that's kind of the uniqueness that we bring. And, you know, our next goal is I really want to set the Guinness world record for most dogs off leash at a concert. [00:11:25] Speaker D: How many is that? [00:11:26] Speaker C: There's actually not a set number right now. [00:11:29] Speaker D: Oh, so you can just. [00:11:29] Speaker C: We're working with Guinness on allowing dogs. [00:11:32] Speaker A: A low bar right now. Right. [00:11:34] Speaker C: It's more so like they want to come and check and make sure that it's going to be safe. [00:11:38] Speaker D: Right? [00:11:39] Speaker A: Yeah. For sure. This is a non traditional business idea, right? Something new. It's something groundbreaking, right? [00:11:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:47] Speaker A: Had to be a lot of stress. How did you manage the stress in the early days when you're trying to get this off the ground and running? When you got trench foot, just how did you manage all the stress? [00:11:56] Speaker C: What do you mean the early days? [00:11:58] Speaker B: Still today. [00:12:00] Speaker A: When you're looking at this business model, how is it impacted? Like every business has its ups and its downs, you know, in your business, what's positive for the business, what's negative for the business? [00:12:12] Speaker C: Great weather, you know, I mean we're, we, we live and die by the weather. I mean, people will come out if it's cold in the rain, but they're not going to come out and hang out for a long time. And honestly, if you want people without dogs coming, you know, they want to come and hang out when it's nice. [00:12:26] Speaker A: When you were thinking about this business early on, did you have your arms around what would be positive for the business or negative for the business? Did you feel pretty good about collectively knowing that or is this just again, been learnings along the way? [00:12:37] Speaker C: I mean, you understand behavior, you understand what you know. At the end of the day, it's still, you know, a concept that people want to, where are people going to want to hang out? You know, it's, it's not some, that part of it isn't some groundbreaking, you know, idea. [00:12:51] Speaker D: We've seen a decent amount of success so far. Yeah. How many, how many fetches are there? [00:12:55] Speaker C: So we have, we have four parks right now and the hope is we have five more coming online in the next year. [00:13:00] Speaker D: Is your, is your mom come back around? What she, what she saying? [00:13:04] Speaker C: Yeah, she started coming back around when Travel Channel came to the park. You know, now that she can brag to her friends about fetch being on tv, she, she's coming back around. [00:13:13] Speaker A: She director of Human resources. [00:13:17] Speaker C: What's I do like. There have been times where I like, I have some HR questions for definitely help me out on the HR side. [00:13:24] Speaker A: I've got all kinds of conceptions in my mind about what it would be like to run this business. What are some. And I'm sure many of them are misguided. What are common misconceptions people have about, about your business? [00:13:35] Speaker C: I've had people come to the park. They're just like, hey, I love your concept. I'd love to do it. Can you give me some insights? And I'm like, buddy, I'm not giving you insights for free. This is Eight years of my life, I've been learning all this. [00:13:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:49] Speaker C: I think there's like this idea in people's heads that it's just a park and there's nothing there, but it's like full. Think of it like a full concert venue. Like from an electrical standpoint, like the buildouts aren't, aren't cheap. [00:13:59] Speaker D: Do you think that's what your mom was talking about, that not necessarily it was a bad idea, but just that it's going to be so hard? [00:14:05] Speaker C: No, I don't think my mom was. She just did not want me leaving. [00:14:09] Speaker A: A nine to five. [00:14:10] Speaker C: Yeah. She didn't want me leaving the safe job with benefits for this huge risk. [00:14:13] Speaker D: Right. [00:14:15] Speaker A: What are challenges as you look to the future for your business? [00:14:19] Speaker C: You know, you always worry as you scale things get taken out of your hands and you've got to find the right people. [00:14:28] Speaker B: These are all your parks. [00:14:29] Speaker A: You haven't franchised or done anything like that, right? [00:14:31] Speaker C: No, these are, these are all my parks. And we, we've had a ton of franchise people reach out. It's just, I don't know if this is a franchise. [00:14:37] Speaker A: I wondered. [00:14:38] Speaker C: At the end of the day, you've got to turn down money and our. Is a. Is someone going to be willing to say, hey, this dog's aggressive, it really should leave, or hey, this dog doesn't have that vaccination. It's fine. I, Speaking of my mom, I didn't. There is. There was a day my mom and dad came to visit with their little cavaliers, but one of the vaccinations was missing and I let my mom in. [00:14:58] Speaker D: Can't come in, Mom. Sorry. [00:14:59] Speaker C: No, I, I. You can't make exceptions. Like, if you want to, if you want to be the safest place that people can bring their dog, you can't make exceptions. [00:15:09] Speaker A: Let's go do. [00:15:11] Speaker D: One of the things that I'm seeing here is that your mom, you know, she wants you to take the safe, the safe route. Do you think that by taking a safe route you're closing yourself off to things? Or is it just that's for some people and not me? [00:15:26] Speaker C: I don't know. I think, I do think I'm wired differently. I mean, some people love waking up every morning and knowing exactly what their day is going to look like. I can't stand two days being the same. [00:15:39] Speaker D: Is that what you would say to other people who are trying to start a new idea, that banks are going to say no, too? No one's going to understand, including your mom. What do you Tell them what? [00:15:48] Speaker C: What is that? Mike Tyson had like a famous quote. It was something like, everybody's got a. [00:15:54] Speaker D: Plan till you get punched. [00:15:55] Speaker C: No, not that one. He had a, a little wiser one. It was something about your brain needs to be stronger than your feelings. Oh, I, I, I think that that should speak to you because you've got to be able to keep things under control no matter what is going on around you. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Dogs make us happy. Dogs are a part of our life. We get home, they don't give a crap about maybe how we screwed up or if you are their hero, but. [00:16:26] Speaker C: Not even step back even if you don't have a dog. Everyone is sitting on their phone doom scrolling all day. You know, I think Fetch is that place where you can go and honestly, it is therapeutic. Go grab a drink, get some sunshine, pet some dogs. [00:16:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:45] Speaker C: You know. Yeah. So, so with a dog or without, Fetch is a place where you can go and get your serotonin boost, get some sunshine, get, get off the phone. [00:16:56] Speaker D: Was anyone else saying the same advice, like, don't do this? [00:17:00] Speaker C: The first two people I pitched Fetch to both said no. They're both investors now. One was the owner of the liquor stores I did communications for. And then, so outside of Fetch, I'm on the board for Enduring Hearts. Surrey is funding for pediatric heart transplant research and the founder of Enduring Hearts and the board president. I pitch both of them and this is people who have relationships, who I've helped, did a lot of work with Enduring Hearts and they both thought it was a crazy, stupid idea, all three of them. [00:17:38] Speaker A: And now all three are investors and the conversion happened. [00:17:45] Speaker C: I think it's one thing to explain something and try and build it mentally and it's a totally separate thing to build exactly what you said you were going to. And I think that was the difference maker. [00:17:57] Speaker A: It's up to the limits of their imagination when you tell them, but when they can see what you've built, then there's a real feeling. [00:18:03] Speaker C: Yeah, but also it's very easy to tell someone, hey, I'm going to go build the happiest place you can experience. It's another to walk in the door and truly feel it. And I stand by that. That's what you experience when you come to Fetch. [00:18:15] Speaker A: It's a work, there's a freaking work ethic in athletes that it's just hard to describe. [00:18:20] Speaker C: It's the ability to compartmentalize. Compartmentalize, like being able to handle adversity, being able to handle stress and go put a smile on your Face and handle something that you got to handle. I think that's something that sports teaches you. That's very tough to learn in life. [00:18:37] Speaker A: You know, we're talking about sports, but things that you do outside of the daily thing that everyone else does that you have a passion for, and that requires a lot of hard work and a lot of commitment, a lot of failure. You failed a lot. I mean, look, you played at the highest level, but you had losses. You had games where you didn't get out of the first inning. I'm sure I don't know your stats, but I'm sure that happened. I mean, and you had to learn. You had to learn from hard knocks. You had to learn to get back up. And I think that's what any entrepreneur who has a crazy unique idea that no one else has ever done has to have behind them to drive them. [00:19:13] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, you can't. Whether it's you're a cornerback who gets burnt on a pass or me, a pitcher, I giving up home runs, you got to be able to brush it off. You still got to face the next battery. It's not going to change anything. If you sit there and think about. [00:19:26] Speaker D: That, you know what the happiest animal in the world is? Goldfish short memory. [00:19:32] Speaker A: You sit here today, you've got a lot of energy, you've got a lot of excitement. You think back to all the experiences you've had. Kind of. What do you take away from what you've learned over these past several years? [00:19:43] Speaker C: If you truly want to do something, you've got to be all in. There's no shortcuts, there's no easy way. You've got to go through. [00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:53] Speaker D: And you got to ignore the worst advice you ever get. [00:19:56] Speaker C: Yeah. You've got to keep filters on. You got to ignore the people, the naysayers. There's always going to be people saying you shouldn't do something. You can't do something. At the end of the day, only. [00:20:06] Speaker A: You know, you, Stephen. I have to. Well, first of all, I think this will be my wife's favorite episode and my daughter's favorite episode, because all they're going to think about is our dog the whole time, and they're going to trigger. We got to take Tucker to fetch Park. We got to take him to fetch Park. So that. And then many of our listeners are going to love this because just an incredible episode. I have to take the opportunity here to share with you that, you know, my. My son actually played college baseball, too. And, you know, he played for Tennessee last year. You know, the team that beat Florida State twice in the College World Series. [00:20:41] Speaker C: I mean, if we're going to talk about worst calls I've ever seen in my life, I think we can all admit he definitely, he swung. I mean, I don't know if the SEC is just that colluded with the College World Series or what, but I haven't talked to one person, Tennessee fan or not, who has said that was a good call. [00:21:00] Speaker A: And with that, Stephen, I can't thank you enough, man. This has been awesome. Thanks for joining us today. [00:21:07] Speaker C: Thank you all for having me. [00:21:09] Speaker B: All right, jb, that was one of those episodes where I kept thinking, this guy really bet on something everyone else thought was crazy. And frankly, it's working. [00:21:18] Speaker D: Totally. I mean, when Stephen said his mom told them to do this, I always love it when it's the parents who, who say it. I think that's always the funniest. Really what she was just saying was, please play it safe. [00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And his response wasn't defensive. He just knew. He said, look, this idea wouldn't let go of me. It just stuck with me and you. He's convicted, and you just can't fake that. [00:21:39] Speaker D: For sure. That was a. Definitely a big part of his personality. It felt like he had a thousand reasons not to do it. Maybe, you know, he didn't necessarily have the background in hospitality, but he had it in liquor. And he didn't have the funding, but he had friends who had money and, like, the concept. Really, it sounds like a punchline, but he just kept saying, like, rejection doesn't mean I'm wrong. It just means I haven't found the right people yet. [00:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's a mindset shift. Right. Taking rejection personally versus seeing it as part of an overall process, and that's huge. Right. He made it a part of his process, and I loved how he tied it back to his baseball career. You know, baseball taught him to lose. [00:22:18] Speaker A: You know, it's a sport that if. [00:22:20] Speaker B: You can't handle failing 70 of the time, for example, as a batter, you're in the wrong game for sure. [00:22:25] Speaker D: Anytime we can talk about baseball, that's good. I feel like we've brought up baseball a lot on these, on these podcasts. Yeah, that just applies to everything, too, Right? Like startups and creative work and even just putting yourself out there. [00:22:37] Speaker C: It's. [00:22:37] Speaker D: It's not about avoiding knows. It's about learning how to keep swinging to keep the baseball analogies going. [00:22:43] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I, I, I. The word that just pops into My head is visionary. [00:22:48] Speaker A: I mean, he. [00:22:48] Speaker B: He talked about, you know, always seeing Fetch as a. A national brand. Right. Something that would be all across the nation. And I. I kind of feel like, because he's so driven by that vision, you know, the nose just bounced off of him like he had a force field on. You know, my big takeaway is just because your idea sounds crazy, it doesn't mean it's wrong. You know, if it lights you up and it won't let you go, that might be your sign to just chase after it, no matter what, for sure. [00:23:17] Speaker D: Especially if you're the only one who sees it clearly. You know, people trying to steal his ideas and the things like, obviously he was a pioneer in this thought. That usually means you're on to something. [00:23:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I guess he just had to be. [00:23:29] Speaker D: Ready for a few curveballs and some muddy paw prints. And trench foot. [00:23:33] Speaker B: And trench foot. [00:23:34] Speaker A: I had to look that up. [00:23:35] Speaker B: I don't know what that is, but fortunately, we don't have trench foot in this dry studio. [00:23:40] Speaker A: What? [00:23:40] Speaker B: We do have another great episode, and we're happy that you tuned in. Hopefully you're excited about what you learned from Stephen. Go visit a fetch park somewhere near you. Maybe you can listen to next week's episode from Fetch park of the worst advice I ever got.