Don't Go Work For That Guy - Lars Minns

[00:00:06] Speaker A: Hey, everybody, and welcome to the worst advice I ever got. I'm your host, Sean Taylor, along with my producer, JB. And today we're talking with chief human resource officer for Mercedes Benz North America, Lars Mens. Lars and his team played a pivotal role in the company's transition from New Jersey to Georgia, including the successful onboarding of over 300 new hires. Since his arrival in March of 2015. Lars is now poised to lead one of the world's most admired brands through a large scale transformation. Lars, thanks so much for being here today. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Shawn, thank you very much. Lovely to be here. [00:00:43] Speaker C: So, Lars, tell us, what was the worst advice you ever got? [00:00:45] Speaker B: The worst advice I ever got was don't go work for that guy. [00:00:49] Speaker C: Very specific and very intentional. Tell me some of the context. [00:00:54] Speaker B: Well, I was contemplating another position while at another firm here in Atlanta, and I honestly thought I had my idea of what the next path would be. And so I saddled up to a colleague of mine who was actually my boss at the time, and I said, hey, what are your thoughts? He knew I was looking, and he said, you don't want to go work for that guy. [00:01:17] Speaker C: Wow. [00:01:17] Speaker B: Don't go work for that guy was exactly what he said. And so, as you can imagine, when someone that you look up to, someone that your boss says that to you, you kind of go, well, surely they must know what's going on. [00:01:31] Speaker C: He knows something I don't know. [00:01:33] Speaker B: That's correct. He knows something I don't know. [00:01:35] Speaker C: So what happened to you when he said that? What happened in your mind? What happened in your actions? Talk about how you reacted to that. [00:01:42] Speaker B: Well, I mean, let me say this. By this point, I've done a lot of research. You know, my mind's made up. And if you're like any young professional, which I was at the time, you sort of calculated what your next paycheck will look like because you're going to take on this job, you know? And I said, well, gee, that's not the handbrake motion that I was looking for. So I immediately stopped, and I said, any reason why you think that's anything you can share, that you think I should know? [00:02:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:13] Speaker B: And he sort of talked a little bit about it. Come to find out, the two of them just hated each other. [00:02:19] Speaker C: Wow. Wow. [00:02:19] Speaker D: It's a personal thing. [00:02:20] Speaker C: So they had some encounter in the past, and it led to clearly, a lack of harmony between these two individuals, to say the least, I would say so, yeah. What did it lead you to do, if anything? [00:02:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So I wasn't interested in what happened between the two of them. I mean, what happened between the two of them, that's their business. But I wanted to at least counterbalance whether or not what this guy represented and why shouldn't go work for this guy was true? Or was it something that I can get on the other side of? I consider myself a charming guy. I think I can win anyone over. I had a sales background. You know, it's about relationships. Maybe it's something. Oil and water with the two of them, in my case, let me spend some time understanding what's going on. I took the job, started working with him. Everything was smooth. I'd say six weeks or so. Sean. Everything was going exactly how I thought it should. And then we got to a point where I said, aha. This is the reason why I shouldn't have worked for this guy. I mean, he was ripping stuff apart. He was giving me feedback on a work product at the time. Said he didn't like it. What was I thinking? I mean, everything you can imagine, right, wasn't mean or anything, but he was just direct. I said, you know what? You realize we're on the same team, right? You realize we're playing the win, the two of us, so we can continue with this sort of tirade, or you and I can just figure out how to win together. He said to me, no one's quite said it that way. In fact, the reason why I sort of ripped into you the way I did and I've ripped into your predecessors is because I don't think anyone really cares. [00:03:57] Speaker C: Interesting. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Now it starts to. Now my mind is really rolling here. I'm thinking, okay, this is starting to get a little personal. He didn't go into much details after that. Needless to say, we walked away. I went out and I said, who knows him best? So I talked to one or two individuals, and what they shared was the guy didn't have a college degree, so he had a chip on his shoulder, and he didn't feel like over the course of his career, he measured up or people respected his output. And so he saw person after person sort of come by and provide their work, and it was just substandard. And he didn't want that to be a representation of what he had to offer. And so here I was sort of doing the same thing over that six week period that everyone else had done. But as I learned, what no one else did was said, dude, we are on the same team. [00:04:45] Speaker C: Yeah. So you had the advice, you understood some of the context, you took the job, and now it starts to unveil itself. That was a pivotal moment for you because you could have either said, ah, he was right, I should cut bait and run, or I can take another approach. So what led you to have the confidence to be able to do that? [00:05:07] Speaker B: Well, let me say this. I didn't believe it was the worst advice at the time. [00:05:12] Speaker C: Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, that's a great point. [00:05:14] Speaker B: I didn't believe it was the worst advice of the time. But I did say, if you signed up for this, you need to see it through. You need to have some conviction and see it through. And there is a moment, there was a moment where I could have easily said, you know what? I don't think this is for me, but what was that really going to do in the end? I would have just fallen right into the same trap, and I would have walked away with the same opinion that, you don't want to work for that guy. I would have been another, you don't want to work for that guy labeler, because I have a personal issue with him versus what are you really trying to achieve? We got important work to do. Let's try to achieve that important work and get on the other side of the feelings. [00:05:52] Speaker C: Yeah. That advice given to you could have led you to quickly say, I'm not even trying here. [00:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:00] Speaker C: But you, fortunately, maybe sought to understand him a little bit better. Is that fair to say? [00:06:06] Speaker B: Correct. [00:06:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:07] Speaker B: And I think, shawn, that's the most important part. I mean, you know, I tried to understand the advice I was given. Now that I'm in the situation, I need to go ahead and do the same thing. [00:06:18] Speaker C: Yeah. Seek to understand. [00:06:19] Speaker B: That's exactly it. [00:06:20] Speaker C: Yeah. How did you start to. To get to a better place, so to speak? [00:06:27] Speaker B: It was months later. It actually wasn't right away. You know, it's one of those moments you have an exchange with someone, and in my case, you just sort of set it aside, not forget it, but you set it aside and you go, look, I said what? I said, now it's time for us to move on. But it was months later, and he and I had a chat, and I asked him, I said, what was your reaction? Like, give me your real reaction. Like, I get. I get that you and I sort of made peace, and there was a truce, and we decided we were going to move forward. What was your real reaction? He's like, the nerve of this dude. [00:06:59] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:07:00] Speaker B: The nerve of this dude. And then he quickly said, but I like that. [00:07:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:05] Speaker B: Cause that's exactly what I'm looking for. I need another guy in the boat that says that we got a mountain to take, and let's go. Take the mountain. [00:07:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:13] Speaker B: This was an important part of the overall business. He was sort of the first guy in that business unit, the bigger company, but he was. He was a. The first person in that business unit, and he had important milestones to hit. And I think he was just looking for a team. He was looking for partnership. And I'll tell you, when I sort of go, worst advice and the partnership that he was seeking, I go, man, what a template to use. [00:07:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Elaborate on that. [00:07:44] Speaker B: I just think with any advice, if you just take it at face value, I don't care who it is, your mom, your spouse, your friend, your beloved, whomever it is, if you take it at face value, you're not trying to understand what drove or what's motivating that person's advice. And whether or not that same motivation resembles yours, it may have nothing to do with yours. You may not even look at life that way. You may not look at that advice, or who the person is giving the advice on behalf of. It may have nothing to do with you. And what I figured out was, I'm a team guy. I love team concepts. I love the idea of hard when it comes to a team and how we get on the other side of it. And that was perfect. That was a perfect moment. I mean, it was a game. When people say game changing moment, that was a game changing moment for you and I, for him and I to have that seminal moment where we just go, all right, yeah. So here's our next step. [00:08:42] Speaker C: And now you see him through a different lens, maybe. [00:08:44] Speaker B: Totally. [00:08:45] Speaker C: And how about him? Did he see you through a different. [00:08:47] Speaker B: Totally, totally big advocates for each other, which you can imagine, and I think that's. That's probably the best reason why you got to go after some of the worst advice. I think there's something really good on the other side of it, but let's not talk about the other side of it just yet. I just think he and I now have good, good, grounded respect for each other because of that moment. And it's crazy, right? I'm thinking about our time together today, and I'm like, okay, I know what the worst advice was, but what was the most critical thing in that advice? And it's that moment, and sometimes you just gotta punch through the wall. [00:09:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:23] Speaker D: Where do you think you are if you listen to that advice? [00:09:26] Speaker B: I'm not here. I can tell you I'm not here. I think I would have floundered. Cause I think one, I challenged the advice. I challenged myself. I had some conviction, sort of burned the boats when I pulled up at the dock and said, I'm not going back. And then I had a moment of real reasoning with, quote, the nemesis. And I think that was critical. And that's taught me that regardless of the challenge, the individual, the work, or whatever it is, there's always something good to be learned from it. And whatever you learn, you take full ownership. You now have it as ownership. [00:10:04] Speaker C: Has this whole thing taught you how to deal with conflict maybe in a different way than you would have in the past? [00:10:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it really has. I mean, I think Sean, and you probably know this all too well, that something is triggering or motivating someone at all times. I mean, we all have sort of our ethos that is just driving us. And I think the sooner you realize what that thing is for the other person, the sooner you just get on that information highway and the frequency locks in, and now you can move and pivot in any which way you want. And dare I say, they get what they want. But more importantly, you get what you want. And that's always what I'm looking to do. There's something I want, but I can't get that first. I can't get it first until I fully understand what is that? What is it that the individual really wants? What do they have to have? And sometimes they're non negotiables for them, and certainly they're non negotiables for me. But if it's morally correct, I think we can get there. We can get there together. [00:10:59] Speaker C: Yeah. There's a value system. So your isms that you have and the isms that the other party has. Right. And as long as those can still align, a lot of it is just white noise. Right. And you can get past it. [00:11:11] Speaker B: Correct. [00:11:12] Speaker C: I'm curious about the individual that you got the advice from. [00:11:16] Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm never one, although I think it all the time. I'm never one to go, you know what? See that? [00:11:22] Speaker D: Don't you sell? [00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I'm never. I really want to do it. So he actually came back and said, man, you really, you really turned that guy around, didn't you? And of course, I mean, I'm thinking, yeah, of course I did. However, there's nothing really to be turned around. Something to understand. [00:11:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:40] Speaker B: You know, I mean, it was less of a battle than it was just understanding and then understanding specifically what it is I say to make that determine that combination lock. Ironically, I got another piece of bad advice from the same individual. That's for another episode. [00:11:55] Speaker C: I guess I'll have you back. [00:11:58] Speaker B: I'll be here all week, but I just reflect and I go, maybe some people just are good at giving bad advice. [00:12:10] Speaker D: Do you think he. So this is gonna be my next question. Do you think he'd be surprised that you're bringing up this advice on the worst advice I ever got? [00:12:17] Speaker B: I don't think he would. I mean, knowing who he is, I mean, he's actually a good guy. There's nothing wrong with him. He's just bad at advice. But. And maybe he's here all week, too. I don't know, to give that advice, but I don't think he'd be surprised. I think he'd be surprised that I remembered it so vividly. [00:12:35] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a very interesting point. You know, I think sometimes the worst advice we get to the party, who gave it maybe is a non event. [00:12:42] Speaker D: They don't even think about it. [00:12:43] Speaker C: They don't even think about it. It's like, I didn't know this was so impactful to me. [00:12:47] Speaker D: We talk about it all the time, how we think. There's. There's five or six things. I just think to myself, I remember somebody saying that I guarantee they don't remember at all, that they said this. Something that stays with you. Why do you think this, though? Why do you think this really just stayed with you? [00:13:02] Speaker B: I think back to the question you asked. You know, if you didn't, if you didn't, if you took the advice, where do you think you would have been? And the fact that I sort of trampolined based on that moment, I think I can't forget it. As a matter of fact, I often think, what's the worst thing someone ever said to you? It's never like ten things. It's like one thing, but it's connected to one big moment. Not a shining moment, necessarily, but one big moment where, man, if I'd taken that. It's like those books when you were kids. You turn to page five if you want to go left or explore the canyon and turn to page 17, you recognize that it totally changes your story. Totally changes it. [00:13:48] Speaker C: It's interesting. The path that you're on now seems very positive by not taking the advice. Right? [00:13:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:56] Speaker C: Are there other examples in your life where maybe you didn't invest in sort of a conflicting relationship that you think back on now and think, well, maybe I should have. [00:14:05] Speaker B: It's interesting you asked the question. I mean, I think back to a lot of relationships because that's really where it cut, what it comes down to. And it's not how, it's who. [00:14:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:13] Speaker B: You know, oftentimes it's who can unlock that door for you. It's who can teach you the next thing. And I think it comes down to your commitment and your conviction to invest in that, invest in that relationship. [00:14:26] Speaker C: I completely agree. It's interesting. In my career, I thought back on this before. I talk to young people now, and they ask me, you know, what I like about my job? And I say, I meet new people every day. Where I've made a difference has been not events, not work, but relationships. [00:14:43] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:14:44] Speaker C: It's a real interesting perspective to think about. Each time we give up on someone, maybe we lose something that we would have otherwise achieved. [00:14:52] Speaker B: Sean, you hit it on the head. I mean, I like to think of every investment in a relationship as almost like doubling down or doubling your investment, the investment in yourself. I mean, it really is. I mean, I always think, I said it earlier. I think of our relationships like a combination lock. [00:15:07] Speaker C: Hmm. [00:15:08] Speaker B: I mean, here I am up all night trying to think of this next thing, this next idea, this next solution to a problem, and I call someone and they go, oh, yeah, you simply do this. You go, what? That simple. And what do we often do? Why couldn't I think about that? You're not supposed to. Those relationships, those tens of thousands of people, those relationships actually are the keys to unlock a lot of your doors. [00:15:34] Speaker C: Yeah, that's very. [00:15:35] Speaker D: Did you ever give the opposite advice? If someone's like, maybe, you know, it is an abrasive guy, or you say a thing and, you know, okay, you're gonna run into some, you know, some things, the way they talk and the way they do things that other people don't like. But don't worry about that. You know, don't look at the personality. Do you ever give kind of the opposite? [00:15:52] Speaker B: I do. I know. I definitely do. I would say I've given some bad advice. I mean, I know that everybody has. Part of what I try to do, though, is say, look, if it were me, but I can't, I can't suggest for you what you should do. I do think you just need to think about what you really want in the. And we had a situation recently. Someone said to me, same similar situation, hey, should I go work for that guy? I was like, look, I wouldn't work for the guy, but I wouldn't work for him is because he and I would not get along. [00:16:21] Speaker D: So it can be. So it's interesting because that's the bad advice. That's the worst advice you ever got, but you'll still give that to somebody else in contact. [00:16:27] Speaker C: It came full circle. That's a very interesting point. Right. You found yourself in that scenario, and the way you responded wasn't don't go work for that guy. It was, if I were you, if I were in your shoes, if it were me. Right. And that's really an important point. It was ultimately your decision to go work for that guy, and it's ultimately this person's decision to go work for this person that you're referring to or not. Right. You can't make someone's decision for them. And I think I take from this, my experience was this. Your experience might be different. You need to think about this, but then, you know, make your decision. And then once you make it, I think the advice you could give them was, I made a decision, I'm going to see this through. I'm going to try to get to the other side of this. Like you did with that seminal moment with your. With the person you went work for. [00:17:19] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:17:20] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting that we've delved into something really specific here. This is about an individual, and it was an individual you respected saying, mmm, don't go work for that individual. [00:17:33] Speaker B: Well, Sean, I'll just make this other point, too. That, and I think you highlighted it. I was actually going to take on a new position, and the advice that was being given was about an individual. So a component of the scenario as opposed to the overall scenario. And so as I framed it, I needed to push past the component. [00:17:54] Speaker C: Very interesting. [00:17:55] Speaker B: As opposed to the main objective. The main objective was securing the job and doing a good job, not so much the individual. [00:18:03] Speaker C: The advice wasn't don't go take that job, don't go do this action. It was, if you do this, you're going to be encountering this relationship. That's a very, very, very important point to make. It was a component, not the overall issue. [00:18:19] Speaker B: Correct. [00:18:19] Speaker C: Wow. That's very important thing for us to consider. Well, I'd like to say thank you, Lars, for joining us today. I think this was a great, great example of when we get bad advice. If we just automatically take it without maybe unpacking it and understanding it a little bit better, we might end up in a worse place. [00:18:38] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:18:39] Speaker C: Well, thanks for joining us today. [00:18:40] Speaker B: Thank you for having. [00:18:41] Speaker C: Appreciate it. [00:18:41] Speaker B: I really appreciate. All the best. [00:18:43] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:18:43] Speaker A: All right, JB Lars was very, I guess, ahead of his time, much more mature than I was at that time. He. He got this advice from his boss, and even though it took the form of don't go work for this guy, it was really more like, yeah, I don't really like this guy. You might want to avoid the pain. [00:19:01] Speaker D: One of the big things that I took away from this was that it was a personal feeling that this guy had. And once Lars figured that out, it was easy for him to navigate away from the advice. [00:19:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. He. He talked about motivations and better understanding motivations, and that's something we hadn't really talked about on the show yet, is where advice comes from, typically, is from the vantage point of the individual's motivations. He was smart enough to. To try to seek to understand what the motivations were, and it mattered later on. [00:19:31] Speaker D: Yeah. And he said, I mean, we asked him point blank, you know, if you would listen to the advice, what would have happened? And he says, I'm not here today. I'm not talking to you on this podcast. I'm not in the place where I am in my career. If I just said, oh, well, this guy's abrasive to this guy, so I'm just not going to go take this step, you know, that. That would have really harmed them. [00:19:49] Speaker A: Yeah, JB, I couldn't agree more. Well, that about does it for this week's episode of the worst advice I ever got. 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