Show Them Who's Boss

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Hey, everybody. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of the Worst Advice I Ever Got. I'm your host Sean Taylor, along with my producer, jb and today our guest is Matthew Eiler. Matthew's story takes us into the world of martial arts, but not in the way you might expect. What started as a passion at a. [00:00:24] Speaker C: Young age turned into a career, a. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Philosophy, and some hard lessons about what real leadership looks like. We'll get into how one piece of advice shaped years of his life and how he eventually learned to flip it on its head. [00:00:37] Speaker C: Hey, Matthew, thanks for joining us today. [00:00:39] Speaker A: Thanks for having me. [00:00:40] Speaker C: So I'd love to just jump right in and have you tell us what was the worst advice you ever got? [00:00:44] Speaker A: The worst advice I ever got was show them who's boss. [00:00:47] Speaker C: Okay. Show them who's boss. [00:00:49] Speaker B: Who gave you this advice? [00:00:50] Speaker A: So I've been doing martial arts for over 25 years. The first martial arts instructor I ever had when I was starting to learn how to lead and teach a class. And there was a day I remember specifically where I was teaching a group of students and I just didn't have control of the group. There was no respect there. And because of that, I wasn't able to teach the actual curriculum, teach the actual points that I was trying to make. And he pulled me aside and said, listen, you have to develop this authority. You have to be in charge and you have to show them who's boss. And that connotation that he was speaking in was a very authoritative, legalistic, infallible instructor kind of way of you have to be this ultimate authority. [00:01:30] Speaker C: Matthew had he instructed you that way? [00:01:33] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. You know, we talk about the. The worst advice you ever got, and we, we put it in that tagline of show them who's boss. But so much of that advice was what had been modeled for me as well. So it wasn't just. It wasn't just a one and done. Here's the advice. Live by it. It was something that I had been training in martial arts for four years at that point, and that's how I had been taught. And that was the expectation of how I teach the next generation of students. [00:01:56] Speaker C: Wow. So you grew up taking martial arts and then you converted that into something you wanted to do, coach, do for a living? [00:02:04] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So my mother was a teacher, and that was a big part of my life. Being younger, seeing my role models, education and teaching and leadership was always something that I really, really enjoyed. I was put into martial arts around age 10, the same reason a lot of kids are put into martial arts, looking for discipline and focus and confidence. And it quickly became something I fell in love with. And because I had such a passion for teaching and helping, caring for people and leading in that way, it was kind of the melding of two worlds together. [00:02:32] Speaker C: The show is the worst advice you ever got. So I'm very interested to see how once you got this advice, it spiraled into something that was bad or. Or ultimately the worst advice for you. [00:02:43] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. So, I mean, teaching has always come very naturally to me. I was in the public schools for about 10 years before I opened up my own martial arts studio. But because of this advice that I got of being this authoritative and condescending kind of instructor, I. I live for a very, very long time, probably about 10 years. And I always had this feeling in the back of my mind that I'm not as good as I could be. You know, when you're teaching from this negative, condescending, authoritative position, your currency is effort, right? And it was taking a lot of effort to get my students to do what I wanted them to do. It just wasn't flowing as easy as it should. And there was a lot of negative feelings and connotations with that. And I. I definitely felt like I wasn't operating at the top of my ability about 10 years after I had been instructing. So I had been training for about 15 years. I was looking for a new place to train, and I had gone to a tournament to compete, and I met a gentleman named David Barley, and he would end up becoming my martial arts instructor. I would join his school, but the reason I came to his school had nothing to do with his ability in martial arts. Is when I went to this tournament, all his students came up to me. They said hello, they shook my hand. They were humble, they were encouraging. And it was just such a different vibe from what I was used to, where the martial arts school was negative and pushing you to be better than the person next to you, and it's always in competition and you're always fighting for attention, it was completely different. And so I ended up coming to his martial arts school for that reason, and it was the best choice I ever made. Um, and a lot of his mentoring to me was undoing those bad habits. Uh, I would see him approach instruction and leadership differently, and it was so foreign to me. Um, and I was really attractive. [00:04:31] Speaker D: Right? [00:04:31] Speaker A: It, it, it looked good. I could tell it was better. [00:04:34] Speaker C: So I. I mean, I gotta tell you, you know, you're. You're describing for me the pop culture phenomenon. Of the Karate Kid. But it sounds like you're saying to me that it's real world. [00:04:45] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. And it's real world to this day. Those, you know, it's funny, I talk to a lot of people and they're like, oh, Cobra Kai is, is so much fun. It's hilarious. What a parody of martial arts. I'm like, it's not a parody. Like, those studios definitely exist in that culture, definitely exists of this teacher who is infallible and you cannot contradict him. And if you do contradict him or you do offer a different viewpoint, you are just beaten down until you are in submission. Um, and that was the environment that. [00:05:13] Speaker D: I grew up in. [00:05:14] Speaker A: There was no room for any other opinions. It was, yes, sir all the time. And being in martial arts, there is a time and place for that, with that discipline and authority. Um, but it becomes a culture of negativity. And like I said, the currency is effort. And people just don't want to pay that currency. It's just too high effort to instruct that way. [00:05:32] Speaker B: As a, as a student, what was. [00:05:34] Speaker C: The impact of you receiving instruction from your teacher in this authoritarian way? [00:05:40] Speaker A: Yeah, so there's, there's two different parts to that. Like I mentioned before, when I joined martial arts, it was for the reason of. Of discipline and confidence and that type of thing. So being a person who really thrived under structure, I liked that part of the authoritative experience. I liked having someone over me telling me what I should be doing and correcting me. And so that part of it was really great. The negative part of it came to be when there was no praise interjected into that. [00:06:08] Speaker D: Right. [00:06:08] Speaker A: When it's negative 100% of the time, when you're constantly being put in competition with the other students around you, when you're never being offered a space to ask questions and grow, you start doubting your own ability, you know. So, for example, one of the things that we do a lot of martial arts is we go to tournaments, we go to competitions. And there was a part of that that was really great. I was pushed to my limits. You know, I definitely learned a lot in that way. But when you went to that tournament and you didn't get first, second, third place, you didn't get the trophy, you didn't get the medal, you were just, you were just beaten down. [00:06:42] Speaker D: Right. [00:06:42] Speaker A: It was not, hey, you did this really well, you could improve upon this. It was, you didn't win, you know, you're no good, you know better. Oh, do 100 push ups and practice for 10 hours because something is wrong with you, not there are areas you can improve upon and that framing really matters. [00:07:00] Speaker C: I'm assuming that negative experience in martial arts can just linger on forever. [00:07:05] Speaker A: Yeah, well, unfortunately, there's eventually a lot of students who just stop, you know, they just quit. You know, I own my martial arts studio for. It'll be five years this fall. And a lot of martial arts studios have a very high turnover rate. And a lot of that is because it's a negative experience. And because of that negative experience, they think, well, I'm no good at this. There's nothing else I can learn. I'm just getting beat down. Why am I going to continue doing this? Since I've learned to kind of change that and interject positivity and lead from a position of humility. Our school's turnover rate is a lot less than other studios that I've trained at in the four years we've been open. They've all continued because we've framed it as a way of continuing growth and continuing goal setting and positivity. And so people want to continue achieving and striving to be better. I'll be honest, I had a complex where I feel inferior. I need to prove myself right. And that is not a positive thing. You know, it's good for students to have goals that they want to achieve. But when you're trying to achieve those goals because you don't have confidence in yourself, that's very negative. [00:08:10] Speaker D: Right. [00:08:10] Speaker A: We want students to have self confidence. We want their, their feelings of achievement to come inward. And I was looking for feelings of achievements from other people, from outward. And that's something that we've really reframed at my school. And that's something that I've had to overcome having confidence in myself as a martial artist, as a teacher, as a husband, as a parent. And now that's something that I'm looking to give my students. [00:08:32] Speaker C: Matthew, is this binary? I mean, I have to imagine there's times where, where you got to be a little more authoritarian and show them who's boss. Is that fair? [00:08:39] Speaker A: I mean, there, there's a lot. Martial arts, the word martial refers to military. A lot of martial arts, if you study the history, they came to America from people that were stationed on military bases in Asian countries like Korea. A good example of that is Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris learned martial arts from his time in the military, stationed overseas, and that got brought back to the US So a lot of these first generation American martial artists, they had military backgrounds and in the military, right? There is that authority, but it never takes over my teaching style or personality. [00:09:17] Speaker D: Right. [00:09:17] Speaker A: My students know, like, hey, you know, during this class, you know, my students call me master. Either master is going to be hard on us and he's going to push us. But you know what? After class, I'm going to come up to them and give them high fives and tell them all the things they did. Great. [00:09:29] Speaker D: Right? [00:09:29] Speaker A: You leave room for that. I'm. I'm very clear. Something I say to my students all a lot is we have fun, but we don't get funny. [00:09:35] Speaker D: Right. [00:09:35] Speaker A: We were having the time. It's a positive culture, but we still have to have that discipline and respect. Now, it's not the right time. Let's focus on this. Let's talk later. [00:09:42] Speaker C: Yeah, no, that makes sense. If I can make an analogy, it kind of feels almost like leading with the authoritarian approach is like leading from a position that's over the top of them. [00:09:54] Speaker A: I would say that that is not the most effective way of teaching because you're not on the same playing field as the people that you're trying to lead. And people recognize that. Right. It's cheap currency. When you say to me, hey, you know what? You can't ask questions. Just say, yes, sir, and do it. I'll do it in that moment. But. [00:10:12] Speaker D: Right. [00:10:12] Speaker A: That currency doesn't have lasting value. It's not a good investment. And that's why a lot of students end up leaving martial arts is because they recognize that and say, hey, you know what? This person is demanding respect. But I don't feel like I'm getting the same respect in return. [00:10:27] Speaker E: One of the things you said earlier was the currency of I want to make sure I get it right. The currency is effort that you're putting in as a leader. So is it actually. Have you found that it's actually easier to lead taking this mindset than it was the authoritative one? [00:10:41] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Because, you know, when you're. When you're in this authoritative, you know, infallible position, students push back on that. [00:10:50] Speaker D: Right? [00:10:51] Speaker A: Students, they like structure, but, you know, we. We all. We're younger, we all like to question that authority. We all like to push back. And so you constantly have this power struggle of, I'm the instructor. Well, you know, I'm the rebellious youth. And they're constantly fighting with each other. So you have to exert more and more effort. You have to take more and more time to keep that position of authority. And when you lose that position, they hold onto that because. Because it's like, oh, man, that perfect instructor. Oh, he thinks he's so tough. He made that mistake, and now we don't respect him. Versus when you walk alongside your. Your students, whether it's your students or your employees or your. Your Whatever, your family, when you walk alongside them. And those mistakes happen. Well, guess what? When my students make mistakes, I support them. So when I make a mistake, they're going to support me. [00:11:36] Speaker D: Right? [00:11:36] Speaker A: We're walking together. And because of that, because of that equal support, it takes less effort for me as a teacher to teach them because they are more receptive to my teaching and leading style. [00:11:47] Speaker C: Has the. Has the resurgence of martial arts and pop culture, you know, Cobra Kai and other things, driven interest and helped you or has it harmed you? Just tell me a little bit about the pop culture impact. [00:12:00] Speaker A: It comes in waves. So I was, you know, depends what it is. But as soon as season of Cobra Kai comes out, we'll get some interest. I think a year or so ago, we had a new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie, you know, that drove some interest. It definitely. It definitely comes in waves. And it's funny because, you know, people have this impression of what martial arts is like from the movies, from television, from pop culture. It definitely drives interests. But you have a responsibility, once they step in your studio, to set the culture that you want it to be. Because the culture that you get from a TV show like Cobra Kai might not necessarily be what you want to actually live by in your studio. [00:12:41] Speaker C: I imagine kids and their parents come in maybe searching for something, or they already have a goal in mind, so you probably help direct them towards that. But what are the key things that you want each of your students to get from your instruction or from the instruction of your studio? [00:12:59] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, it's. It's mind, body, and spirit. [00:13:01] Speaker D: Right? [00:13:01] Speaker A: It's. It's. It sounds cheesy, but it's true. Body is obviously very obvious. You know, punching, kicking, physically getting muscle, gaining endurance, health. Those are all definitely qualities that some people join us for. But I would say 90% of our younger students, that's not the reason that they join us. It's more of that mind and spirit. [00:13:20] Speaker D: Right. [00:13:20] Speaker A: Mind. We want our students to develop focus, spirit. We want them to develop confidence. Right. And that is really where most of my work gets done before I open up my martial arts studio. I mentioned that I was a public school teacher. I actually taught special education for about 10 years, and I was very unhappy in education and the public school system. I mean, even the best teachers will tell you there's issues with it, but the thing that I got most frustrated with was I'm trying to teach my students math, I'm trying to teach them reading, and there's such an emotional and social component that they are missing that it becomes very hard to teach those academics. [00:13:57] Speaker D: Right. [00:13:58] Speaker A: A student can't focus on learning math because at home they have a broken family. And it's really affecting their confidence. And they look at that math problem, they go, well, there's no way I can do this. I'm not smart enough. So forget teaching math. There is a emotional and mental and spiritual, you know, for lack of a better word, thing that we need to develop in this student. And so when we come into the martial arts setting, yes, we're teaching self defense, yes, we're teaching sport karate, yes, we're teaching the art side of martial arts. But we're always looking for how to integrate that into our students. Confidence and discipline, those are the two things that people really come looking for. But I've had so many adults that come up to me and go, man, you were talking about that building confidence thing. I struggle with that anxiety. I need that too. And so the adults don't realize that that positive message of mind and spirit also applies to them. And so that's what people really, I think, get out of it. [00:14:53] Speaker C: I have to imagine that there are additional lessons from leadership in martial arts that can be applied to all aspects of your life or your work, wouldn't you say? [00:15:06] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's definitely part of martial arts is my students don't have a choice in the sense of they have to be leaders. Right. If you're going to be a high ranking martial artist, in our style, there is an expectation that you can lead and teach. And now it's forcing the student not just to do the kick, for example, but to think about how this is done. How am I going to teach it? Well, okay, what are the steps? They have to bend their knee, they have to pivot their body a certain way, they have to extend their hips, right. And so now it's not just doing the technique, but it's really breaking it down and thinking about how they're going to do that and how they're going to explain it. And then there's also the component of, of now I have to build that student's confidence. So I'm going to add in praise. I'm not just going to dryly explain the technique, but I'm going to offer correction, I'm going to offer praise. I'm going to build this student up. So you have these martial artists who are not just learning martial arts. Learning martial arts. Excuse me, you're learning this ability to lead and teach and it's translating into other areas of your life. Absolutely. [00:16:06] Speaker E: It makes so much sense. So why do you think we're still seeing this authoritative thing not just in martial arts, but in everywhere in the world? [00:16:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's, in my opinion, truly an ego thing. That authority is attractive. [00:16:19] Speaker D: Right. [00:16:20] Speaker A: I get to be in front of the class. I get to be the one in charge. I get to be the one that people respect, that that power is, is, is addictive. So there are people, I think, that absolutely get into leadership positions not because they want to help and lead people, but because they want to be seen as the person in charge of. And they go, well, now I'm the one in charge. I don't need to learn, I don't need to improve, I don't need to grow. Not only are you getting, not getting better, you're getting stagnant, but your students start to recognize that and your skills start to cheapen and people start to realize you're not as good as you let on. [00:16:52] Speaker D: Right. [00:16:52] Speaker A: You're not as, as authoritative or as powerful as you want people to think you are. [00:16:57] Speaker E: Yeah, that's some gray area, right? To leadership, as opposed to the black and white. I'm in charge, everything I say goes. That's it. Then there's no gray area. Gray area is tricky, but absolutely everything that you learn comes from the gray area. So I think that's what's difficult about. [00:17:11] Speaker A: Absolutely 100%, you know, and I think that's the best leaders are the ones who are able to handle those gray areas. Well, you know, when there's a very clear cut answer of yes or no, that doesn't, it doesn't take a leader to answer that question. The dumbest person in the room might know what the right answer is, but the person who's able to answer in those in between spaces when, ooh, should I do this or should I do this? That gray area you're talking about, the person who's able to handle that well, that's the leader. [00:17:36] Speaker C: All right, now this is the most important question of the whole podcast. I mean, Daniel Russo's not really beating Johnny Lawrence. I mean, that's not, that's not really happening. [00:17:44] Speaker E: Can you do that kick? Yeah, yeah. [00:17:45] Speaker A: With that win, you know, that's the joke of the Karate Kids. That was an illegal kick. You know, that was an illegal no. [00:17:51] Speaker E: You'Re not even allowed to do that. Right. [00:17:53] Speaker A: The whole premise is. Is flawed. [00:17:56] Speaker C: Matthew, D. Do you ever, or did you ever reconnect with your first martial arts instructor, the one who gave you this advice? And, and if so, what was that interaction like? [00:18:07] Speaker A: And. [00:18:08] Speaker C: Or has he changed his approach to how he leads? [00:18:10] Speaker A: Honestly, I don't care. And when we do go to tournaments, there has been times where we pass by other martial arts schools who are in our areas at tournaments, and some of their students do very well. That's great. That's good for them. There's times when my students do very well. I just want to say that I'm very proud of what I'm achieving. And I can see in the long run that I feel, not to talk badly about anybody else or be condescending. I feel that what I'm doing now is more valuable than what I was doing 20 years ago. [00:18:42] Speaker C: That's a perfect answer. That's a perfect answer. Matthew, I've really enjoyed our time today. This has been great. I love gleaning different types of advice that's been the worst from people and then really weaving it into some other aspect of life, in this case karate, and just really seeing how it all ties back to being a good person and being a good leader. So I really can't thank you enough, and I wish you all the best with your studio, and I hope your students really learn a great deal from the way you're leading them. I think it's very impressive. So thank you for joining us and sharing some of your advice and some of your learnings with our listening audience today. [00:19:22] Speaker A: No, no problem. Thank you for having me. It was a great conversation. I hope people. I hope people get something out of it. [00:19:27] Speaker B: JB what stood out to me about Matthew's story was how one simple piece of advice, show them who's boss, really shaped a whole decade of his life. It's, it's, it's such a common mindset in leadership. Authority equals respect. But he, but he learned the hard way. It just doesn't hold up. [00:19:44] Speaker E: Yeah, it was like, you know, he's really living in that Cobra Kai dojo. He's like, you know, all fear and no balance. And you can tell it wore him down because that style just takes so much energy to keep up all the time. [00:19:56] Speaker C: Oh, exactly, exactly. [00:19:57] Speaker B: And, and like many others, he found a mentor. And that mentor really flipped the script. It showed him leadership works best when it's built on things like humility and encouragement, shared respect. You know, that's when everything started to change. [00:20:11] Speaker E: Right now he's running his own school, and, like, it feels much more like Miyagi than Cobra Kai. If everybody is watching the new Cobra Kai show. And, you know, he's said students just want to stay there because they feel challenged, but also supported. And that's a good lesson for anybody who's listening to the show, who runs a team. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. This episode just reminds me of one of the things I love about this entire show. It's just how different our guests backgrounds are. You know, one week it's an entrepreneur, next week is someone like Matthew, who grew up in martial arts. [00:20:47] Speaker E: Yeah, I mean, we do that on purpose. We work really hard to make sure our guests come from, you know, all walks of life. It keeps it, you know, fresh for the audience, but it's also fresh for us, you know, so we never know what perspective we're going to hear. And that just makes the conversations original and worth having. [00:21:02] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. [00:21:03] Speaker B: And Matthew's story proves that leadership lessons can come from anywhere, even the dojo. So big thanks again to Matthew for joining us, and we look forward to seeing you all next time on the worst advice I ever got.