Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of the Worst Advice I Ever Got. I'm your host Sean Taylor, along with my producer, jb and today our guest is Sammy Williams.
Sammy is a nutritionist, yoga teacher, and recovery coach who has dedicated her life to helping people heal their relationship with food, their bodies and themselves. She's passionate about nutrition that actually nourishes movement, that feels good, and creating a healthier culture about how we treat our bodies. But before she ever stepped into that role, Sammy lived through years of following a piece of advice that shaped her life in ways that she never expected it would.
Today, she's here to share how that bad advice became part of her story and how she turned it into her mission to guide others towards balance and healing. Hey, Sami, thanks for joining us today.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: My pleasure. It's lovely to be here, Sammy.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: I'm really interested to learn what was the worst advice you ever got?
[00:01:00] Speaker A: The worst advice I ever got was eat less, exercise more.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Okay. Eat less, exercise more. How old were you when you got this advice? What was kind of happening in your life? I'd like to know more about this.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: I mean, my first kind of memory of that is around the age of eight. Around that time I started swimming. I mean, I was a swimmer before that, just, you know, as a, as a child. But I started training properly and having, you know, sessions with a coach.
And after one session, I remember he took us to one side after, afterwards spoke to me and my mum and he said, oh, you know, she's, she's a bit too fat. She needs to lose weight. And that's eight.
Yeah, yeah, I was eight years old. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:01:43] Speaker C: I just wanted to make sure.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Okay, that's okay.
I guess that was the first time I ever thought about my body in a, in that way. Like, it never even occurred to me that there was fat on it. You know, it wasn't something that an 8 year old child thinks about. So, yeah, that was, I guess, the first time I ever felt that there was something wrong with my body. I don't think that was necessarily the advice, but that was the first time that I started to take notice of that advice.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: So you definitely internalized the message and it started maybe shaping some of your actions. It, it had an effect.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I think the way that that internalized for me was that I started to compare myself to other people. You know, I was surrounded by lots of other children and teenagers who were also swimmers and thinking, well, there's something wrong with my body and it doesn't look like that so that means that, you know, I need to do something to change that.
And so that idea of, like, exercising more to kind of, you know, use up, burn energy and like, consuming less energy started to kind of, I guess, be something in my mind. So. Yeah, so I guess that was the. The internalization of that.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: So you. You basically, at some point, maybe not right away at 8, but shortly thereafter, after internalizing this messaging, you started actually doing that, eating less and exercising more.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: Yeah, so I guess the first time that really, like, manifested in, like, a behavior was when I was sort of a teenager and I started to go out, you know, sort of underage. Drinking was a thing then.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: And you never happened? Never happened? No, never.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: No, of course not. You don't know what I'm talking about.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: No, never.
[00:03:27] Speaker A: We would always, like, on a Friday night after school, we'd go, right, we're not going to eat dinner today, because that will make us feel, you know, like, slimmer. And so I think I realized that that association between not eating, feeling slimmer, and feeling more attractive and confident started to kind of connect in my mind.
And so. And because we were all doing it, it was just normal. Like, all my friends were the same. You know, it wasn't like I was doing it and nobody el.
So it kind of just seemed like it was a normal thing to do.
[00:03:58] Speaker C: Yeah, that's the damaging effects of it, right? Is that it works, but just maybe not in the healthiest of ways.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And I think when you're that age as well, you know, your body is still changing and it causes, you know, health issues if you do it to an extreme level.
So. Yeah.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Did following that advice have a damaging outcome for you?
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, when I went to university was the first time that I really kind of did that to a more extreme level. So while I was there, I just started partying more and, like, you know, going out more and kind of having this freedom that I guess I've not had before, which is what everybody does at uni, I guess, and. Yeah. And then the next morning, you know, you don't feel very good, so you just, I'm not going to eat food. And, you know, that kind of sort of pattern started and.
And I lost those weight really quickly. And people were, like, commenting on it as well. I was like, oh, yeah. And that kind of gave me this momentum, you know, and, like, an encouragement in a way to keep going.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. I. I gotta feel like pop culture or the, you know, people in general, you know, might have been Saying some things that were reinforcing this behavior. Is that fair to say?
[00:05:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, anybody that was around in the 90s, you know, like magazines, they. They were all kind of covered with, you know, supermodels who are like skeletons, you know, the heroin chic look.
Kate. Marcia, exactly. You know, she's probably the one that comes to mind because she was, you know, in that genre then. And all these messages were coming in. And in my sort of very naive and young brain, I was just going, yeah, this is great. You know, I'm feeling like really good. And even though I was, you know, it was probably. Well, I now know it was a deeper rooted issue. But, you know, at the time I was quite happy.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: People like me, they're saying nice things about me. When did some of the dark moments start happening that, that maybe led you to believe there was a problem?
[00:05:56] Speaker A: I started weighing myself a lot.
And, you know, every time I sort of saw the scale, like moving down, I'd feel this, like, excitement and be like, oh, well, I'm going to try and get to there. And, you know, that's the part of the eating disorder that's very, I don't know, perpetuating because you always want to lose more weight. Like you, but you, you can't keep losing weight. You know, it's. It's not possible.
[00:06:20] Speaker C: So owns way something.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, your mind doesn't know that the eating disorder part of your mind is just going more, more, more kind of thing. And yeah, so there was that. And then there was also times when my, my part, I was with a, with a guy at the time, and he, you know, he was obviously like asking me, questioning me about things. And because I didn't want to change, I was quite happy with how I was and how I looked.
You know, I would eat food in front of him and then sometimes like purge. And that was like the first time I'd ever done that. And so, yeah, that was, I guess, quite a dark time because that's something that is pretty. It's very damaging for the body. Another one sort of later down the line was my period stopped as well. So this was kind of much later. But I realized that it was actually like affecting, you know, a whole system of my body because, you know, I'm a biologist, so at university I did biology. So I'm not, you know, unaware of.
[00:07:26] Speaker C: Very aware of what's supposed to be happening.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Exactly, yeah. Yeah. And I was a teacher as well. So, you know, I'm There sort of standing in front of the kids telling them about the systems of the body. And my systems are not working well. So, yeah, that's when I guess the behaviors sort of were my coping strategy.
So it became like a friend, like a reliable friend that I was like, right, well, I can control that in my life. I can sort of focus on that and it's distracting me from all the other things that are happening.
[00:07:57] Speaker C: It's a while. So, right from university to 30 years old.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: So, you know, this is going on for 10.
Yeah, I was about to say. JB, how many years? 10, 15 years?
[00:08:06] Speaker A: Well, actually, probably in total it was about 20.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: And it was. It would kind of happen in cycles. Like times when I was like, happy and content in my life, it was just not really there in the, in the forefront.
But times when, you know, I was under stress or I was not very happy in my life, or I was, you know, dealing with whatever, that's when it would kind of like start coming back up again. And I'd go into like a cycle of, you know, like, sort of panic driven, like, oh, my God, I really need to, like, lose some weight and I need to, like, exercise more and yeah, just like restrict food and you know, and I guess the effectiveness of that advice as well started becoming less effective as I got older because, you know, your metabolism changes, doesn't it?
[00:08:48] Speaker C: Now you have to eat even less and even more.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And. And when your body's under stress as well, I didn't realize this at the time, but you're experiencing, you know, like, metabolic changes. So if you're exercising more, that's increasing your metabolic rate. And if you're eating less, that's reducing it. So you're in this, like, metabolic confusion, really. And I think that's what led to. And you've got high cortisol because, you know, stress hormone goes up and when your body doesn't have enough nutrients, this is what I learned later.
You know, it will make the cortisol at the expense of other hormones. And the reproductive system is not essential for life.
So that one down first. Yeah, exactly. And so that's why a lot of women, you know, who are athletes, like, and, and you know, women who are with eating disorders, they lose their period. So, yeah, that was the first time that happened. I think I was about 34.
And yeah, I was like, whoa, this is actually really affecting my body. But I still carried on.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's interesting because an event happens, you carry on. An event happens, you carry On. I'm curious as when you finally realized that you had to. That this was an issue and you had to change it.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Yeah, so I think I realized it was an issue way before I actually decided to make a change. And I think it's that idea of like, we, you know, lying to myself.
And we can believe anything we tell ourselves, really, in a. In a positive way and a negative way. You know, through my sort of, like, late 30s, I moved out to Thailand and I was teaching out an international school in Bangkok. And then Covid happened.
I was teaching online because the schools are all closed. And then, you know, three. Three o' clock would come and I'd shut the computer because there's no marking to do. There's not really any of that sort of stuff because the kids are just, like, switched off by now. And then I'd be like, alone with that. With that eating disorder, with that kind of behavior that became really polarized.
And I. I remember one specific time I was listening to the BBC radio, Radio 4, and there was an article about, you know, what would happen to people during lockdown, like, how it would affect people psychologically and physically. And they were talking about weight gain, and some expert was on being interviewed, and they said, yeah, people are going to gain weight through lockdown. And I was just like, oh, my God, you know, I hadn't even thought of that.
And so that kind of just spurred me into this, like, really kind of extreme cycle because, you know, it was like, almost like a companion that was there that I could rely on, because it always been there. It was. Yeah, it was really kind of intense. And just at one point I was like, you know, I was preparing some, I don't know, salad or something, and so hungry. Like, I feel, like, really horrible. And, you know, I was constantly checking my body. I was always, like, looking in the mirror going, oh, you know, oh, my God, these hip bones are not sticking out enough. You know, that kind of, like psychology.
And then anybody that's had an eating disorder will be able to relate to that.
And it's so about you as well. Like, you become so consumed with yourself. Like, it's not, you know, you can't really look at other things. So I was just like, I'm so tired of this. You know, my body just. My mind was just telling me, you know, you're nearly 40. Like, you know, are you going to keep doing this, like, all your life? Like, what. What's going to happen?
And it was at that moment that I was like, okay, I've got to do something about this. And I, yeah, I kind of admitted it to myself, which was the first time really properly that I actually did.
And so that was when I was like, okay, I'm going to do something about this.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: So this is 32 years after you get the advice for the first time. And yeah, pretty much, yeah, after 20 to 25 years of really hardcore applying the practices. So a lot of learned beliefs, a lot of. How did you get away from that many years of doing this? It had to be really hard.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it is really hard. I mean, I did a lot of things. It wasn't just one thing, to be honest. So I'd become a yoga teacher in 2018, and yoga had always been part of my life. I'd started practicing it when I was at university, actually. So I guess that was something that when I did my teacher training became not a physical practice anymore because I'd done it for a physical reason. But it became more about the spiritual element on the emotional side of it and the connection with the mind and body.
And that was, I guess, just one step in the journey for me that I was like, why am I being so unkind to myself? Like, nourishment is self care, rest is self care. And, you know, I've grown up with this idea of you have to keep doing, you know, you have to keep doing things to be useful and you have to, you know, rest is like, boring and like, what's wrong with you? It's weak. You know, that kind of message and being vulnerable, I guess, was the first thing that really helped that.
And then when I had that moment in Covid, I decided to see a therapist. So I was actually moving back to the UK to study a master's in nutrition because I decided to become a nutritionist and leave teaching. And I later learned from my therapist that that's actually a really common thing that people with eating disorders do. They. They work in nutrition. And. Yeah, and then I sort of moved to where the university was, where I studied my Masters in nutrition. And so, like, they offer free counseling as part of the university.
So I ended up seeing like a specialist, like eating disorder specialist at the university. And I saw her for the whole year that I was there for the 12 months. And she was probably the most transformational, like, therapist that I. I've seen in that journey because, you know, she had all these kind of tricks and advice and ways of kind of helping me out and asking me these questions that really got me to kind of dig into the underlying reasons why, you know, I Was behaving like that and treating myself like that and just understanding, like, the root of that behavior was really important.
[00:15:00] Speaker C: So I gotta say, yours is gotta be the most aggressive, like, worst advice that we've ever got from, like, what you had to do to get over it that we've had on the show so far. Sean. Right.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: With.
[00:15:13] Speaker C: Yeah, well, it's worse advice.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: Interesting, because she took it every single day for 25 years. 32 every single day for three decades. She starved herself and she drove herself to an exercise routine to just try to. To just become skinnier and skinnier and skinnier or driven to manage, manage, manage. And that's so hard.
I gotta ask.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: How's your relationship with food today?
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Yeah, so that's been a very long process as well, because in 2015, while I was going through my divorce, I decided to go vegan. Learned later that was just another excuse to restrict food for me.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: And so, you know, now I work as a nutritionist. I would always check people's kind of motives around that. Yeah. I guess as I went through my.
My actual recovery with the therapist, you know, she would talk to me about, like, fear foods and, you know, like, why. Why am I so scared of them? Like, what. What is it about them? And, you know, is that kind of, I guess, diet culture mentality of, oh, you know, those things are fattening and unhealthy are. Those things are not. And so it's this very dichotomous, like, you know, categorization of food. Fat is bad. That, that was the message that I grew up with. My relationship with food now is great. I actually did my recovery and my masters at the same time. So I was learning about nutrition and about health and the body, and I was surrounded by other people who are also on that journey. And so that, I guess, was really healing for me.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Can we go back to you use the phrase diet culture? What is the diet culture?
What's it based on today?
[00:16:57] Speaker A: At least, I think diet culture is still this very quick fix approach where you should restrict food, restrict calories. Actually, it's all about calories, usually.
Um, or restrict whole food groups. So don't eat carbohydrates, you know, because it's them that's the devil, you know, or only eat, you know, plants, because meat is the devil. So it's all.
[00:17:23] Speaker C: Only meat. Plants are too much. It's always. Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:29] Speaker A: So it's always restrictive. It's always cutting something out.
And, you know, diet culture is like, oh, this is. This is the thing that's going to be the silver bullet that is going to give you the body and the, you know, the life that you want, that you always.
[00:17:43] Speaker C: Social media. Yeah. You know.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And it perpetuates. Yeah, perpetuates that belief.
[00:17:48] Speaker C: What do you think the, the schools and like parents now are like, the nutrition that they're giving advice like, is wrong.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: It's interesting that you asked me that because I've just been approached and getting involved in an incentive in the UK to try to change that, to get this kind of like lifestyle medicine approach into schools. Is everything in life really, that is, it adds to your health because health isn't just about food, it's about all of the other choices you make. You know, there is diet culture, but there is also an awakening of people going, hang on a minute, ultra processed foods are unhealthy for your body. It's a multi layered thing. You know, it kind of needs to be. Teachers, parents and children all need education.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: Feels like to me that our society now is looking for a pill or a shot to just basically not worry about nature. Okay. I don't know if I can eat all fat. I don't know if I can just eat vegan. I don't know. I just don't know anymore. But I know I can take a shot. Isn't that what our culture is leaning towards now? I think this Ozempic shot is very worrisome to me.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you mentioned that because, you know, diet pills have been around for quite a long time.
I've seen this in multiple different areas actually. So.
Yeah, so the, I mean the Ozempic or you know, that's just a brand name but it's like Semaglutide, which is a GLP1 agonist. So it pretends to be the chemical that your brain naturally produces. It is effective at weight loss because it makes you feel full, but the sort of darker side of that is all the side effects. So, you know, I've spoken to a client who's been on the weight loss journey with me, which is very much a, you know, holistic process and you know, with enjoyment and fun and like flexibility around food because I want it to be sustainable. And then his, one of his friends has done the, the Zenpak injection and he said that he just, he stopped going out, he stopped seeing his friends. Him and his wife just sit in every evening. He's like miserable in his life because, you know, he, his, you know, his social circle used to meet for dinners and go out and, you know, he's lost weight, but what happens when he stops taking that? And that's what all of these diets, all of these processes, all of these silver bullets that are promised in diet culture. It's the same issue. When you stop doing it, you go back to your old behavior. Because your behavior around food is not about the food. It's about your thought patterns, your habits.
And none of these things teach you how to change your mind, how to change your behaviors, how to change your habits.
[00:20:26] Speaker B: Give us some practical steps, Sammy, that people can take to have a better relationship with food.
[00:20:34] Speaker A: There's kind of like two layers to that, really. One of them is like what you're actually eating and consuming and the other one is like your behavior.
Whole foods and plant based foods are going to give you a reduced level of inflammation in your body very quickly.
And finding, you know, somebody who's working in that industry, you know, somebody like me to guide you on that pathway with a, with a whole food diet is going to give you that, that result. And starting to educate yourself about, about nutrition a little bit, a place to start is just to, I guess, want to change, you know, to kind of go, am I happy? Is this how I want to live the rest of my life?
And to, yeah, to kind of be honest with yourself.
That's the hardest thing. And, and that will be the root of the change, I think, that you, that you make.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: If you could say one thing to your younger self, knowing what you know now, what do you think it would be?
[00:21:32] Speaker A: It would be, it would be, don't compare yourself to others because comparison is, is the thief of joy. It would be that food and self care are the same and it would be like, be kind to yourself. Yeah.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Well, there's been a lot of worth gained from this episode, Sammy. You're sharing of your story and just the grind you went through for 30 years.
Look, we have a lot of listeners and I think many of them are probably battling this. It's probably pretty common. So I think your story might help a lot of people today.
Thank you for spending time with us and sharing it and giving us your experiences and the worst advice you ever got because I think it's going to help a lot of people.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I, I really hope it does because, you know, for a long time I would never have dreamed that I could have even shared stuff.
And so it's kind of a, I guess for me, a representation of how much I've healed, that I can now share it and Help other people. Because, you know, an eating disorder can manifest itself in so many different ways. You know, mine was. Was restriction and exercise. You know, it can be so many different ways. So, yeah, if anybody is out there and is feeling bad about their body, then know that it can change. And it's. It's not a life sentence.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: JB I think we just heard maybe the worst advice we've ever had on this show.
Eat less, exercise more.
On the surface, that's just common sense. But for Sammy, it wasn't. It was.
Let's. It wasn't just bad. It shaped her for the next 32 years.
[00:23:13] Speaker C: Yes, certainly from an impact perspective, probably the worst advice that we've got so far.
And what, you know, was really interesting to me is how she compared her eating disorder as. As almost like a companion that she had in her life. It's because it's a constant in her life, something that she could control and lean on even when everything else was out of control. And I'm sure people who go through this, that's how they feel about it. You know, it. It just shows how powerful, like, bad advice can be. And it doesn't just influence, you know, maybe one or two decisions. It can actually shape your entire sense of self.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: Exactly. And what I admire most is how she's turned that pain into purpose. She's teaching people that your worth isn't tied to your weight and that food and movement can be about self, love instead of just punishment.
[00:23:59] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, it's wild to think that one, you know, kind of fairly careless comment, maybe at a swim practice, can set off a journey that long. But, you know, it's also really inspiring to see how she's using that to maybe shorten that journey for other people.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the hope, right? Sammy lived with that advice for 32 years, and. And maybe by sharing her story, someone out there will hear it sooner and start healing earlier.
[00:24:23] Speaker C: Yes, for sure. And again, that's the point of the show. Right.
Try to listen to somebody else's worst advice, and then maybe you don't have to go through the same thing.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Big thanks to Sammy Williams for being with us today, and thank you all for listening. We look forward to seeing you next Friday with another great episode on the worst advice I Ever Got.
