Don't Marry Her - Todd Musselman

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Hey, everybody, and welcome to the worst advice I ever got. I'm your host, Sean Taylor, along with my producer, JB. And today our guest is Todd Musselman. Todd is a powerful and effective leader who combines his background as a business owner, sales representative, and professional musician to produce strong, measurable results in the fields of motivational speaking, leadership training, and executive coaching. Now, as you know, we like to keep our episodes as consumable as possible in their length. But when you hear Todd's story, you're going to understand why this episode runs a little longer than others. Hey, Todd, thanks so much for joining us today. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Well, Todd, I'd like to jump in and just hear, what was that worst advice that you ever got? [00:00:54] Speaker B: The worst advice I ever got was don't marry her. [00:00:58] Speaker A: Ooh. This is like a. My wife will be very excited about this one. This just jumps right to Bravo and Bachelor and Bachelorette. This is exciting. Don't marry her. Okay. Normally, we don't jump to the end of the book, but did you marry her? [00:01:13] Speaker B: We did. I did. And I'm still married to her 32 years later. Three children later. Yep, we're. Yeah, we're still at it, and I think it's doing very well. [00:01:25] Speaker A: Okay, well, good. Well, then we'll just treat this like any good Quentin Tarantino film. We'll jump all around. Let's go back to the beginning. Who gave you this advice? [00:01:36] Speaker B: My two best friends very lovingly took me out to lunch, and I mean lovingly. They had a lot of concerns, and in my mind, probably justified. And they sure, their advice. And, Mike, thanks for sharing. They did ask me a really, you know, I think, normal question. The question was, how do you know that she's the one? And I'll never forget why. I said, I looked at him. I said, I don't. And I would say that to this very day. I've been married 32 years, and somebody said, are you gonna be married to beth the rest of your life? I'm like, I think so, but I can't say for certain. I have no idea what's gonna happen in my life. How would I know? Don't. Don't know if I'm well, these are. [00:02:13] Speaker C: Your best friends that know you so well, so why do you. Why would they say not to marry the woman that you've now been together for? [00:02:19] Speaker B: That? That's a much bigger story. That is the genesis, probably, of what we might talk about. So let's backtrack. Provide the context of where that that advice came from perfect. So when I was 28, I was in a grocery store. I had a date for over a year and a half. Woman walked into the protosection. We caught eyes and instantly had that connection. And my opening line to what is now my wife was, did you know you could be arrested for that? That was my opening line. First thing I ever said to her because she took a bite out of a strawberry. Hilarious story. Anyway, we made our way through that. We started dating after our first date. I called my mom and I told my mom I met the woman I'm going to marry after our first date. 100% true. I was dated for three weeks. And then I promptly went to New Zealand for three months with my younger brother to fly fish, pursue our passion. So there was a big pause, got back. Nothing had changed. I actually came back early because I missed her so much. And we started living together within three weeks of getting back from New Zealand. But things started getting a little rocky about a year into, our relationship started getting a lot of fights, and we were specifically fighting over my family. I worked in a family business. I come from a very close family. And so she started to back off, and we started getting a lot of fights. It was in Dallas with my brother on a business trip, and we got in a fight over the phone. I turned to him, I said, when I get home, I'm going to end this relationship. And my brother looked at me and said, I can't believe it. I thought for sure you were going to get married. I said, well, I did, too. In fact, I still love her a lot, but I just can't be with somebody who doesn't love my family. And so I flew back to Denver, and I got in the car. I was driving home. I had a huge pit in my stomach. I thought I was going to blonde, but I was so upset because I did. I still loved her, but I was convicted, too. I'm like, yeah, I got to do this. And I got home and she beat me to it. She was gone. And it was remarkable how great of an idea it was when it was my idea, it suddenly became the worst idea on the planet. And I became one of the neediest, creepiest guys you've ever seen in your whole life. My God. You want to know the definition of growling? I was growing. And I called her. Called her. She finally took my call, you know, I, what the hell's going on? And she said, well, I just decided I can't do this anymore. We did this bizarre dance for about two weeks, and inside that two weeks, I kept saying to her, you know, none of this makes sense. There must be somebody else, because none of this makes sense. And she said, oh, no, no. There's no one else. Well, of course there was somebody else. And with that information, I went down the rabbit hole so deeply, you couldn't see my tail. I lost 20 pounds in two weeks. I was such a mess. And from my perspective, honestly, there's no bigger dose than you're not good enough than betrayal. It is the biggest dose of you're not good enough you can get as a human being. And so I was a mess. And I worked with my sister very closely at this time, and my sister's watching me go through this. I think she got a little worried I might die. I mean, I. The pounds were coming off. I was just. I didn't work at all, and I was just a mess. Finally, she called me and she said, well, there's a woman I know. She's a healer. I think she can make you feel better. I'm like, well, what's a healer? And she says, oh, you know, it's. She's kind of like a shaman person thing. I'm like, okay, well, you said the magic words. Feel better. Of course I'll give her a call. [00:05:56] Speaker A: At this point, you're willing to try anything, right? Oh, my God. [00:05:59] Speaker B: I mean, I really. I am. It's not going well. And so I called her on the phone. Her name was Francis. Came to give her a 15 minutes download on what's happened. And so she said, well, why don't you come on out to my ranch tomorrow and we'll talk? So I drove out 45 minutes out to her ranch. I knock on the door. I don't know what a healer looks like, but this woman walks out. She looks like a healer. [00:06:21] Speaker A: Great, Bill. [00:06:24] Speaker B: Wow. And anyway, we exchanged pleasantries, and then within the first minute, Francis changed my life. She looked at me. She said, todd, you know, I've been thinking a lot about our conversation yesterday. And she said, I've just been wondering one thing. What did you do to create this mess? Holy cow. I was so pissed. I was really pissed. I'm like, what did you. I literally said, what'd you say? She said, yeah, I was just curious. What did you create this mess? I'm like, didn't you hear our whole conversation yesterday? Like, I'm the victim in all this. So, anyway, we talked for an hour. I don't think I heard another word she said. I was so pissed. And my sister. I wanted to kill my sister. Feel better, my ass. I feel like. So anyway, the universe set up a 45 minutes drive just for me. And right about 15 minutes in that drive, I started thinking about what Francis was asking me to see. What did I do to create this mess? As I started thinking about that, I'm like, oh, my God. I think I'm responsible for this whole entire thing, because for the last year, I've been on Todd's excellent adventure. And she kept saying, I'm over here. I'm over here. I'm over here. I'm like, yeah, whatever. So she had enough, and finally somebody came along and heard and understood her in a conversation, which I'd probably stop doing. And so I'm like, oh, my God. I created this whole thing. Well, I got home, and I'm. Now I'm even more of a mess. I'm like, oh. And that self judgment was really strong. And it just so happened she was in our. In our house. She was cleaning her stuff out, and I walked in, and she always could tell us. She had some trepidation. Oh, God, not this. You know, this guy was. I said, well, you know, I want to share something. I'm not expecting anything out of this. I just want to let you know, I had a realization that I saw somebody really woke me up. And I just want to let you know, I really get. And I caused this whole thing by how I was being, and I was so sorry. And she almost fell backwards. I mean, she literally still stunned, because that was the exact opposite of who I'd been that morning. And she kind of gathered herself, and she looked at me, said, it's interesting. I've been thinking a lot about how this whole thing happened, and I really get that I caused this because I never put my foot down. I'm like, no. And she's no, really. I mean, I know, you know that I have a lot to do with this, too. And so now we're in this bizarre awkwardness, like, okay, now what do we do? And so we agreed to start seeing each other again, and I was hard. [00:09:02] Speaker C: Is that the time that your best friends are sort of noticing this? Like, that. That time when you get back, they. [00:09:07] Speaker A: Saw all this pain, right? They saw everything you. [00:09:09] Speaker B: They were through with me, this whole thing. I mean, tears, everything. This street. [00:09:15] Speaker C: Well, this is what I was at the start of the story. I was. I was all on your side. I'm like, what do you mean? Of course you should marry this girl. Then you keep going this way, like, well, no, now I'm on the best friends. Now I'm with them and now I'm back to you. It's interesting, but yeah. So they're with you through all this? [00:09:28] Speaker B: 100%. And they're watching this thing. And so we actually never moved out from each other. We just kind of went back and it was super hard for both of us. Of course, she had trust issues. I had trust issues. Her trust issues are that I was going to ever change, that I would actually think about her first and stuff. And of course, my trust is that she's going to leave me again. You know, and in fairness to Beth, it was only a. It was not. It was just one event. There wasn't a fair per se that they were kept seeing each other. It was event. She felt horrible about it. So there wasn't a lot of that baggage to overcome. About six months in, lot of forgiveness had taken place. We weren't completely there yet, but we were getting closer. I think we both intended to marry each other before all this happened. So we decided to get married. I never asked her. She never asked me. We decided to get married. That's how that one went. I came to class. If people say, well, what, how'd you propose your life? Yeah, we just decided there was no prep. I was a unit anyway, so then I shared that with, with my friends and. And they were shocked that we were going to get married. They were, understandably, because we're still. It was still smart. That's when they took me out to lodge and shared with me what they thought, which I got. I mean, I never was angry at all. I saw the love in it. Truly, I really did. They were making a stand for me. And because based on all the information that would make, I was in their shoes, I probably would have done the same damn thing for sure. [00:11:04] Speaker A: But, you know, it sounds like from listening to the story, they were in the details of the pain and we're hearing all of the negative. They probably weren't in as much of the day to day details of the recovery, and maybe. So that's why they were slanted. Or maybe. Or do you think it was just, hey, that's a. That's a no forgiveness zone. That's a no return zone. Where do you think they were coming from, Todd? [00:11:31] Speaker B: I. Probably a little of both, even myself. What's interesting is, up to that point, I'd say, I'd make several proclamations in my life using the words never or ever. You won't hear me ever say those words again, because every time I've said never or ever. I get. I get bit in the ass. And I remember thinking before all this happened, if a woman cheats on me, I will never end up with that woman. And, you know, for me, my truth. Anyway, I got so much from that breakdown. I mean, a ton. The biggest thing I got was one giant dose of humility, for sure. You know, I'm personally a big fan of humility. The problem is, humility never comes for free. It only comes at the tailoring of getting the shit picked out of you by life, man. Is it valuable. I would have just repeated the same pattern again if somebody hadn't called me on it. That's just the way I was. I mean, it's all about God. It wasn't unkind. It just was. I want to go fishing. I just went fishing. Sorry. What? [00:12:35] Speaker C: Surface level advice, right? Like, that's what a lot of bad advice comes from, is like, they see it, and if you just take the first parts of your story. She cheated on me, and she tried to break up with me, and she wouldn't let me go do my thing. Yeah. Don't marry her. [00:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And I. You know, it's funny. We said it was bad advice. I don't even think it was bad. Right. It was. It was. [00:12:55] Speaker A: That's what I was. Yeah. It wasn't bad advice. This is not terrible advice to tell a friend, don't. Don't spend the rest of your life with someone who hurt you and. And broke your trust. It's not bad advice, but it is your worst advice. [00:13:09] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Isn't that crazy? [00:13:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's. Yeah. I'm glad I didn't listen to that. Let's put it that way. The one thing they said, you know, why do you want to marry her? And I said, because I haven't stopped learning her. And I would say that to this day, Todd, would. [00:13:26] Speaker A: Would. Would Beth be surprised that she is marrying her is the worst advice you ever got? [00:13:34] Speaker B: I don't think she would be surprised, honestly. Maybe she wish I would have advice. We've been married 32 years. I'm damn sure there's points in our marriage. You were like, why didn't you listen to Stephen, Mark? [00:13:49] Speaker A: That just leads me to also, I mean, so Steve and Mark are all in. Did that end the friendship? I mean, what. What in the world happened when you said, hey, thanks, but no thanks, guys? [00:13:59] Speaker B: Oh, it's a great question. So here's what happened. My wife and I had a very non traditional wedding, and what happened was I asked Mark and Steve to marry us. And they did, her two best friends. So they created this amazing ceremony. They're both truly amazing human beings. And so they ended up marrying us. How ironic was that? [00:14:23] Speaker C: Did she know that they had given you the advice not to marry her, and then she was like, yeah, sure, they can marry us. [00:14:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a good. You know, she loved them, and, you know, she got her. I mean, again, we all got why they would say that, right? It wasn't like. It was like, where'd this come from? Right? And I think they both loved Beth a lot. You know, they love her. They're huge fans of her. She's an amazing woman. She just made a choice. I'm glad she made the choice. Woke me up. It's brutal. But I'm so grateful. I'm not kidding. I'm grateful. Like, very grateful to that. All that pain and suffering because of what I got from it. [00:15:00] Speaker A: This is so unique, JB. You know, are you just good at picking what's bad advice and what's good advice and not taking the bad? [00:15:10] Speaker B: No, I want to be. I've had some fun, done some advice that I, you know, for a simple one for me, I don't. I don't want to get away from the main topic, but what. It's inverse of what you're asking. I got some good advice we can take, which was, when I grew up in a family business, we were a distributor of products, and crocs came to us in their infancy and wanted us to be the sole distributor in North America. Uh, and. And we looked at these. These things. These are about the ugliest things. We. And the guy was like, no, but you understand. You understand every medical person on the planet is wearing these things, and this is going to go huge. You're like, yeah, no, they're just gone awful ugly. And so we. We didn't take that advice. And you and I would be on this call together right now if I were taking that advice, because I'd be. I'd be somewhere. Maui or so I don't know where I'd be, but it wouldn't be here. Beautiful. [00:16:09] Speaker C: Sitting on an island somewhere. Yeah. [00:16:11] Speaker A: Okay, so we've clearly discerned you're not just able to see the future. [00:16:15] Speaker B: No. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Yeah, but. But I still think it's so interesting that you were able, in that moment, to just immediately not take the bad advice. Was it just the love for her? What was it? [00:16:27] Speaker B: You know, again, I. Yes. Deep love. Even when I decided to end it, I was devastated because I loved her. It just didn't make sense. How could I be with a woman who didn't love my family? Even that didn't turn out to be true, obviously, but we just went for a family union this weekend with all my siblings and my. So that's not true. But I would credit my mom and dad for that choice in the sense that my mom and dad handed me a very profound constitution. I've been given the gift that I know I've always been loved. And I don't know how that makes me. How I can wind that into this, but I just. I've always trusted my gut. And because of that constitution that they gave me, I had nothing to do with. They just handed it to me. And super grateful for that. But I just went with my gut. Cause I knew that she's an amazing human being, and I wasn't willing to give her up because of a choice that I, you know, high cost, in my mind. Yeah. [00:17:27] Speaker A: This is such a profound story, JB. I'm curious, Todd. Have you shared this story with others? And do you use this story to advise others? [00:17:35] Speaker B: Well, you know, I do. I share it a lot. When I speak, I'm not. You know, I get. I've obviously gotten Beth's permission to share it. When people don't sign on the dotted line and decide they want to have an affair, there's always reasons behind that. And so for me, there's three steps to, I think, transcending tough times. The first one is accepting that you're the cause of the matter, and that's a hard one, like really getting that I caused this, not blaming somebody else, but really taking on that I'm the cause of the matter. [00:18:07] Speaker A: And not just the words, but really deeply. [00:18:10] Speaker B: And thank God for Francis. I mean, she called me on it. She just changed my life in 45 seconds is. You know, that's step one. The second step, which might be even harder, is forgiveness. In this case of Beth and of myself. I had to forgive myself for how I was being. I've noticed that number one reason people are not willing to forgive is they'd rather be right than happy. And in my case, I could have held on to being right about the affair, and I would have been right the rest of my life, and nobody could take that for. But I would have forfeited one hell of a lot of happiness being right as a fool's errand about, oh, I don't know, about 99% of the time. And then the last step, which I call the payoff step, is gratitude. Being authentically grateful for all the pain and suffering, but more importantly, the growth and expansion that you experience as a result of the pain and suffering. If you can't look in the mirror and say, you know, as part of that whole thing was, I'm so grateful for it because of who I've become, because of it. I go back to step one. You haven't accepted that you're the cause of the matter. You're still holding on to believing that the other person's to blame. That's my own experience, guys. There's no truth. [00:19:21] Speaker C: That's all we ask people to do on the show. So great. [00:19:24] Speaker B: That's just my experience. So acceptance, forgiveness, gratitude, those are the three steps. [00:19:30] Speaker A: This just seems to transcend types of issues. Right. I could see this in a. In an employee employer relationship and a coach mentor relationship, right? [00:19:40] Speaker C: I. [00:19:41] Speaker B: 100%. Well, it circled back. I told you I worked in a family business. We lost that family business to bankruptcy in 2008 after 42 years and same three steps, accepting that we caused it, we wanted to blame the bank and the board and then forgiving ourselves and others and then being grateful for the breakdown. I mean, I am so grateful because I wanted to do what I'm doing now, which is to speak and to coach, but I just didn't have the courage. I let fear get in the way a lot. So I'm grateful as hell. It creeps you, to be honest. It was really hard. [00:20:19] Speaker A: It's interesting to be grateful for the things you're grateful for. Very few people can be grateful for going through bankruptcy and having a partner being faithful to them. So kudos to you for being grateful for those things. You had this shocking moment of someone asking you, what did you do to cause this? But not everybody's going to have that lightning strike. So how does someone go from being right and being in pain to a process of trying to figure out what their role was in? [00:20:50] Speaker B: So I think very few human beings have the prescience to come to that self awareness on their own. I think there's almost always somebody that's going to make a stand for somebody and just call them on the carpet, like in a loving way, like Francis did with me. Right. In the world that I work in, I make a distinction between getting through life and getting from life. In the getting through mode, that's the victim mindset. If you live long enough on this earth, life is going to life. You. Whether that's your girlfriend cheating on you or go through a bankruptcy, life is going to life. You. If you live long enough and when life lives, you, the first response for every human being that I've ever met is to get through it. That's our first response. Absolutely no exceptions. And then, and then there's somewhere along the line we have a choice point where we can either continue to get through it and be a perpetual victim, or make the turn and get from this experience and use it for our growth, our expansion, or learning. You probably know some people that have never made that turn. Some pretty hard things have happened, and they just are consistently still getting through that experience. And you've also known people like the two that I'm talking to right now that have had some pretty big things happen to you and you got from it. That's what I'm talking. And it's when it shows up as gratitude, that's when you know you've gotten from an experience, when it's as hard as it is. I'm so grateful. Wasn't easy, super hard, but I'm so grateful because of what I got from it. And, you know, almost always one of the biggest get froms is humility. [00:22:26] Speaker A: You have kids, right? So when you're looking at them going through an event like you've gone through, how do you, as a loved one, allow them to go through that without trying to, you know, fast forward or fast track and just give them the answer? Right, because the process for you was as important as getting to the answer. I find myself very often trying to have my children have my loved ones avoid the pain by me just giving them the answer. And I assume that's the wrong way to do it. [00:22:54] Speaker B: Gosh, I wouldn't say that's wrong. I'd say that's incredibly human. Two of my three kids have been through some pretty tough stuff, you know, adults now. I didn't do so well with my older son. I tried to fix him. My daughter went through a pretty traumatic experience, and that time I didn't try to fix her. I just held a space. And I can't even tell you how proud I am how she navigated it. Very difficult human experience. And there were moments where I didn't know if she was going to be on this planet. That's how deep her pain was. And it was hard to hold that space and not jump in. But my experience with my son taught me I can't fix another human being. That's not my job. That's their job. My job is to hold loving space for them and to meet them where they are emotionally, not where I want them to be. I think of all the realms in the world of human experience, that's the hardest one to stay out of. I wish I had more wisdom in that. I don't. I don't have an answer. I can tell you I did it reasonably well one time and not, not so well the other. [00:24:03] Speaker C: Yeah, there's plenty of people going to come on the podcast and give the worst advice I ever got was from my parents. So it's fine. We're all just guessing. [00:24:12] Speaker A: No, absolutely. Well, I. Look, first of all, I'm so thankful for about six or seven people that without would not have routed you to be with us today on this episode, starting with your wife, obviously, and with your two friends. Look, this has been incredible, Todd. I can't tell you how awesome this conversation has been. And your transparency and your vulnerability have made this one of the best episodes we've ever had. So I just can't thank you enough for joining us today. [00:24:44] Speaker B: Todd, thank you. Thanks for having me. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Well, JB, infidelity, bankruptcy, and somebody who's grateful for both of those things. [00:24:56] Speaker C: Crazy. I mean, that was a crazy story. There was so much more we could have even gotten into. I had so many more questions. I just knew, look, we got it. We're just going to maybe have to have him back. [00:25:06] Speaker A: Whose side were you on, Todd or Todd's best friends? [00:25:09] Speaker C: I went back and forth so many times. You know, I think when I explain this episode to people, like, what's this one about? I'm going to say, you're just going to have to listen to it because it's, it, it sounds very surface level obvious. And as you get into it, I don't even know if I have an answer for you on whose side I ended up being on. [00:25:26] Speaker A: How about this for our listeners? Think about something where you're in a conflict right now and ask yourself, what did you do to create this mess? How about that question that he got? [00:25:37] Speaker C: That is tough. And I was thinking, I was like, I didn't do anything. And I really love what he said about, um, the barrier to happiness. You know, 99% of people would rather be right than happy. And like he said, if I could have sacrificed 32 years of happiness with my wife and our kids and all these things, and nobody really would have even faulted me, they would have said, well, you're right, you shouldn't have married her. You shouldn't marry somebody who cheats on. You shouldn't marry somebody that you get in fights with. And for what? [00:26:03] Speaker A: You know, you talk about this nobility of being humble. He said it never comes for free. It typically comes on the back end of getting the shit kicked out of you. [00:26:13] Speaker C: Yes. [00:26:16] Speaker A: Indirect takeaway from this episode, but I mean, you talk about a real takeaway. It was just three steps to transcending the tough times, which is accepting you're the cause of the matter, forgiveness of others and yourself, and being authentically grateful for what you've gone through. I mean, just really great stuff. You know, everybody, Todd is an example of a yemenite guest that was referred to us by somebody. So if you're out there and you're thinking, hey, I know somebody who has a great story and would be a perfect guest for this podcast, reach out to me. Reach out to JB. Reach out through the actual worst advice I ever got, Instagram page or LinkedIn page, and let us know who might be good to talk to because we want to keep creating great stories and great content like this for you. So tune in next week for another episode of the worst advice I ever got.