If You Want To Fit In You Can't Stand Out - Kavi Vu

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the worst advice I ever got. I'm your host Sean Taylor, along with my producer JB. And today our guest is kv vu. KV is a vietnamese american spoken word artist, videographer and social media strategist who has uprooted her entire life to move back to her native Vietnam. She considers herself a storyteller who hopes to inspire her audience with her passion for cultural identity and social justice. Hey, KV, thanks for joining us today. [00:00:36] Speaker B: Hey, thanks for having me. [00:00:38] Speaker A: Or actually, in your case, I should say thanks for joining us tonight. You're in Vietnam and it's what time in the morning? [00:00:45] Speaker B: It is midnight. [00:00:46] Speaker C: Oh, a little after midnight. Yeah. Dang. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Well, you are so gracious to do this. And so tell us about the worst advice you ever got. [00:00:55] Speaker B: The worst advice I ever got is, if you want to belong, you have to fit in. [00:01:01] Speaker A: Interesting. You want to belong, you have to fit in. Let's break that down. Who gave you the advice? [00:01:07] Speaker B: My parents. My parents are vietnamese refugees. They came to the states in 93, and that was kind of their mantra to become Americans. [00:01:21] Speaker A: What do you think they meant by belonging, and what does that mean to you? [00:01:24] Speaker B: Ooh. Ooh, that's a good one. I think for my parents, belonging meant acceptance. You know, if they worked hard, paid taxes, learned the language, contribute to society, they've always seen America as like the dream, like the place to be, heaven on earth, and so they just wanted to be accepted by America. [00:01:47] Speaker C: Was there anything in their past like that made them think of that? Like, from where they were from originally? [00:01:52] Speaker B: Back then, they just lived in villages and they just heard like, oh, my gosh, America's this, like, beautiful place, this vast place. And you can, it's not so traditional. You can be whoever you want to be. And hilariously, they came and they're like, no, we have to be this one way. [00:02:10] Speaker A: So that's what belonging meant to them. Let me follow it back up on what is belonging mean to you? [00:02:17] Speaker B: Belonging to me by a place means that you can bring your individuality to it and it is still accepting of you. Will I not belong? [00:02:30] Speaker A: Katie, when did they give you this advice? [00:02:32] Speaker B: Do you recall when we were born? I think right away. [00:02:36] Speaker A: Right away? [00:02:37] Speaker B: Yeah, immediately? Yeah. But I think it was throughout my youth, just in various things, like, I want to try. I remember one of my goals in being the editor of my senior year yearbook. It's like, I want to do something different. Go for the first all color yearbook and make sure that each person had a unique quote so that each person is remembered. And I remember that being a little controversial at school and my mom just being like, can you just, like, what did the previous girl do? Can you just do the thing that she does? Like, don't ruffle any feathers. You don't want to burn any bridges. And I'm like, I'm 17. And it wasn't a controversial topic at all. My mom would always have these small things that are like, you need to. This is too extra. You need to bring it down. You need to fit in. No. Nope. That's a weird idea. Bring it back. You know, all through high school, I joined as many clubs as I could to try to get to the perfect college and then, like, you know, fit in there, join all the clubs that were recommended. And in this whole time, like, I think I had it in the back of my head about what's natural to you is to stand out. But still, I stuck through it. College, I fit in. You know, after college, like, what everybody did, I was just trying to fit in and get my job and, like, do the clicking until 05:00 p.m. and then try to get married, try to have. Buy a house. It was all laid out. And, you know, I felt like as long as you fit in, as long as you do these things, then you will become accepted. [00:04:30] Speaker C: Go into their. Like you said, they were persecuted a little bit. Like, tell me more about that. I just want to know more about that story. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. This might sound crazy. We are just so used to having freedom of speech, and it is a huge thing to be able to criticize anybody. But in many other countries, including Vietnam, it is nothing. Not okay. And especially when my parents grew up during the war, I mean, they would see different family members go into re education camps and be imprisoned just for saying, like, we don't like the state of the country. And honestly, y'all, like, I have also, to a smaller extent, kind of undergone an interesting thing here now that I'm in Vietnam, but I'm just so used to freedom of speech. I'm so used to being like, that's a weird thing. And so many of my american friends have been like, KB, you're not in the States anymore. You need to chill out. And I think that's what I was doing to my parents advice, you know, when they were like, you need to fit in. I was like, no parents. You're not in Vietnam anymore. We can stand up. [00:05:48] Speaker C: Exact opposite. [00:05:49] Speaker A: So when did you start to say, I don't want to just fit in, you know, I want to be me. And I still want to. I want that feeling of belonging. But when did. When did this start coming out of? [00:06:00] Speaker B: We were the only asian family in our very, very small town in south Georgia. And when I came up to Atlanta, like, I was really still trying to fit in like y'all. I was trying to go hunting and mud bogging like everybody else, you know? I actually was trying to fit in so hard that I wore the confederate flag. It was called ditchy Outfitters, and everybody was doing it, and I, like, had no idea, like, we hadn't learned about, like, civil war yet. I was just kind of like, this. [00:06:29] Speaker C: Is the cool kids club, but everybody's wearing this outlet. [00:06:32] Speaker B: Right, right. And it wasn't until I think, like, my first trip to Atlanta, I was on, like, some. Some yearbook convention, and I. I just met all these people who were thinking outside the box, and I always thought that I had that in me, that, you know, I'm a little weird. And the weirdness was just kind of kept inside this box. In Atlanta was the first time, I think, there was, like, an essay contest or something, and I just, like, full said was weird, and it was appreciated, and I was like, man is not fitting in. It's like, is that okay? [00:07:09] Speaker A: What kind of doors did it open for you when you started to not adhere to the advice? [00:07:14] Speaker B: You know, I can't say I didn't follow the advice starting at 16. I'm not gonna lie. I went pre med just like my mom told me to, and I was very safe and tried my best to fit in, but still, there was this seed growing that's like, is there something else here? Is there another path for me? And, I mean, honestly, pre med was just so boring that I was writing, like, little poems on the side. I joined this talent competition and kind of leaned into my more creative self, which would. Which is super different. Like, you're on a stage. You are not fitting in at all, and you have people saying, wow. Like, you were brave enough to speak the words that I couldn't or that you spent the time to write down words that I feel but was never able to express it. And I'm like, yep, I'm going there. [00:08:14] Speaker C: So, obviously now you've moved to Vietnam. [00:08:18] Speaker A: Same thing. J. [00:08:20] Speaker C: Is the advice good now? Is it like, well, maybe I should try to fit in more? How has it shifted as you made this major life change? [00:08:26] Speaker B: You know, what's nice about advice is that you could either choose to take it or not take it. And a lot of my life, I took it but if I didn't oppose the advice, I wouldn't be here because I wouldn't be as free as I've been able to be in my career. And I was a video intern. I sat right behind JB, and I was so quiet. I. I didn't say anything. Like, they told me exactly what to do, what buttons to press, and press those buttons. I was a little trooper. And, you know, it wasn't like, really. I was so inspired by JB, just, like, doing whatever the hell he wanted. And it was so celebrated in a way that I hadn't seen before. And even though I did have, like, my, you know, my spoken word route and I was exploring different creative things, like, it was the first time that I really saw someone celebrated for being just so weird and just standing out so much. Yeah, it was really inspiring. And since then, I'm not going to say you changed my life, JB, but very, very, very inspiring. And I was still very, I need to be in this company. I need to work at a company. But it all kind of went a little nuts when I was transitioning from one company to another. But the transition was in LA and I was in Atlanta still. And for political reasons, I stayed and I started getting freelance jobs even after I stayed. And I thought to myself, is this something I can do? Even though it's not fitting in, it's not fitting into the work culture, the corporate nine to five culture. Somehow it was still successful. And that's when I started not following the advice more and more and more because it proved to be successful. I didn't have to dress or look a certain way for people to respect me. I think that is what allowed me the freedom to be kind of a global citizen, be able to live wherever I want. [00:10:52] Speaker A: Do you find yourself now, in Vietnam, feeling restricted from being sort of individual? [00:11:00] Speaker C: You have to be careful. [00:11:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Being individual and fitting in. Yeah. [00:11:05] Speaker B: I mean, no, absolutely, yes. When I am here, I definitely want to be respectful of the culture here, the politics here. I definitely have to understand that I was raised in a place where you can critique and you can form your own opinions, and if you don't think something is right or serving your community, you can actively try to change that. But it would be naive to try to bring your social upbringing to a completely different country and be like, why can't I do the thing here? So, yeah, I definitely have to. I think any traveler, any person who is living in a place that they did not grow up in kind of does have to be careful if you want to be a good traveler, to be like, okay, like, this is not what I'm used to. Let me just kind of follow suit and see. Which is exactly what my parents did. While. [00:12:07] Speaker C: Maybe the advice was, now I see why they said that. But I think you get it. Respectful is the word. [00:12:13] Speaker B: Well, their advice is given out of fear. And today, I'm not fearful. I'm respectful, but I'm not fear because I have the privilege of being an american. So it's definitely different. And I have an education, then I would know the process is to, like, get out of something if something really hit the fan. Yeah. [00:12:37] Speaker A: We hear stories of people that are given advice, and it's counter to who they naturally are. I think this fits in that category a little bit. I don't get the sense from you that you were greatly scarred or damaged from it. [00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's interesting to try to tell a kid who grew up as one of the only people who look like them in a town to fit in. So by being born and existing in that place, I already didn't fit in. So that is naturally who I am. I'm always going to look different. It goes against who I naturally am. But I don't think it scarred me so much, because there are maybe benefits to fitting in. Like, if you keep quiet for a little bit because you're observing, that's okay. But then, like. But then you eventually gotta speak up. So I think it's okay that I was observing for 24 years of my life enough to have the language, the know how, the logic to be like, you know, all right, it's my time to speak. 25 years later, we're not gonna fit in anymore. [00:13:51] Speaker C: So we've kind of gone through it, right? We've sort of, like, unpackaged it in the. In the episode. Do you think you need to fit in for a certain amount of time to belong? [00:13:59] Speaker B: I think if somebody is searching for belonging, it does take a. There is a period where you are observing your surroundings and trying to find ways in which your life aligns to whichever community or whatever cultural things in that period, assimilation period, or whatever the observation period you are. You can be. You're more quiet, but I don't think that necessarily means, like, you need to, like, try so hard to fit in. Like, yeah, I love this kind of food. And it's like, no, you don't. And it's okay. [00:14:42] Speaker A: Kayvie, do you think you have to change who you are to belong or change who you are to fit in? [00:14:47] Speaker B: I would hope not. I don't think so. I would hope nobody feels like they have to change who they are. I think that's why I don't like the advice that I was given, because I felt like fitting in. It means, like, you make yourself smaller, you change who you fundamentally were. You say, I like blue, if you like blue, even if I didn't like blue, at some point you have to stay true to who you are. [00:15:17] Speaker A: I pause for a minute and I think through this question is, how many ideas, how many inventions, how many products, how many processes do you think we lose if people aren't creative or if they don't extend themselves and take risks to be something other than what society tells them to be? What do you think our society would be like if people were not bold and creative and not just trying to fit in? [00:15:41] Speaker B: I think America wouldn't be, like one of the most sought after countries in the world if it didn't allow that. That creativity, that, you know, different line of thinking, like, that uniqueness in different cultures coming together, truly. And I think that's why when, you know, my parents came over, I was like, bring the vietnameseness. You know, like, there's a lot of. There's a lot of beauty in your cuisine and in your thinking and in your perseverance that a lot of people could learn from and incorporate into their lives. [00:16:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Being yourself does not automatically make it so that you can't be part of a group. I think that's the big thing. [00:16:27] Speaker A: KB, I really like your line that you said, fitting in makes you smaller. What do you mean? [00:16:34] Speaker B: I mean, even in the word fit in, like, fit. Like, you have to just fit in. No matter what the space is, is that you're fitting in somewhere, making yourself to whatever shape that needs to be it. Really. In my family, they were really just trying to erase all the cool, interesting, unique things about our culture and just being like, put it in the box and then we will fit. Every life is unique and every journey is unique. Think about when you fit in a box. There's no room for anything else. [00:17:11] Speaker A: Well, KV, you have definitely globalized the worst advice I ever got because we have officially recorded the episode with the longest time zone difference, 11 hours, thanks to your generosity. So I can't thank you enough for joining us today and sharing with us the worst advice you ever got. [00:17:30] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, y'all. [00:17:32] Speaker A: Hey, JB. I think it's interesting where this advice was birthed. It came from her parents who were new to the United States. And not just the United States, but the deep south. And they felt that they had to prioritize being accepted in this new place. Don't rock the boat, just blend in and fit in. And it was maybe a little bit out of fear, right? [00:17:55] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, it makes sense thinking about where they came from, especially, you know, Vietnam during the war, when they were kind of growing up in a small village and having an opinion kind of outside the norm, literally is dangerous. So I can understand them saying, maybe let's just do what everybody else is doing. [00:18:10] Speaker A: I can sympathize with why they were given that advice. And boy, did KV, you know, listen to it. I mean, again, another example of where someone got this advice when they were at the impressionable young age, their teenage years. So she. She towed the line, man. She went hunting and mud bogging and wore the confederate flag. Talk about somebody who listened to the worst advice. [00:18:31] Speaker C: She's just following whatever what everybody else is doing. Just do that, copy this, copy that, and then you'll. You'll fit in to, um. You know, I mean, she. She said that she didn't really even stop to think that maybe this is the worst advice she ever got till she was in her mid twenties. [00:18:45] Speaker A: It definitely didn't fit her. And she always knew something was off. It really. It brings into mind the question of, does fitting in ever make sense? Right. It's a hard thing to determine. [00:18:58] Speaker C: Well, I think that was the whole, I like where we got with her. With the fitting in means, you know, you have to make yourself smaller and cut yourself out of all of these other things that you are and the difference between fitting in and belonging. You know, you can. You can absolutely be yourself and still belong to a group, into a community, and to make friends and all the things that. I think that's what her parents wanted for her. [00:19:22] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. And I bet every one of us could think back to a time in our life where we tried to fit into a group because we wanted to be accepted or we wanted to be cool or we wanted to be safe or whatever it was. And so we, we wore what other people were wearing or we said what other people were saying just so people would. Would look at us. It's this universal herd mentality to most people to just want to be part of a group, right? [00:19:47] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:19:47] Speaker C: That makes total sense for thinking back till high school. I mean, everybody was doing those kinds of things. I think the takeaway from her episode and the thought is that you don't have to be original in every single thing that you do and always be like, oh, I'm just gonna go against the norm all the time. Um, and that even the fitting in is bad. It's just that you can absolutely be yourself and still belong. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. And something that came out of this episode, which hasn't come out of any episodes we've had yet, is, does it have a different feel now that she's back in Vietnam again? It was very, very interesting to think through. Well, is it bad advice here, but great advice somewhere else? [00:20:25] Speaker C: Yeah, she did a good job of kind of, uh, curtailing that where she's like, I learned how to observe. It's almost like she kind of picked little pieces of the advice that did work for her and kind of put herself in her parents shoes. I see where you're coming from with this advice. Observe and listen and make sure you're being respectful. But at the same time, that does not mean don't be yourself. [00:20:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the takeaway here is that you can absolutely be yourself, but still belong and take away. For me is this was another great episode of the worst advice I ever got. And if you feel that same way too, please give us that five star rating and tell your friends about the podcast so that they too can hear from great guests like KV and others that we've had. Be sure to tune in next week as we bring you another great episode of the worst advice I ever got.