Say No To Drugs - Michael Brody Waite

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:05] Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of the Worst Advice I Ever Got. I'm your host, Sean Taylor, along with my producer, JB Today. Our guest is Michael Brody Waite. Michael's story is the kind you almost don't believe. At 23, he was homeless, addicted and out of options. Today he's a TEDx speaker, bestselling author, and the former CEO of a company that grew 20,000%. That's not a misread. 20,000% and landed on the Inc. 500 list. He teaches leaders, executives, and anyone who will listen how to show up with radical honesty. Because it turns out recovering addicts make some of the best leaders out there. Let's jump right into it. [00:00:50] Speaker A: Hey, Michael, thanks for joining us today. [00:00:51] Speaker C: Thanks for having me, man. [00:00:52] Speaker A: I'm really excited about you being here. I want our audience to hear about the worst advice you ever got. [00:01:00] Speaker C: The worst advice I ever got was say no to drugs. [00:01:03] Speaker A: Tell our listeners, you know, the background who, you know, maybe where that advice came from and just a little bit about you. [00:01:10] Speaker C: Well, I mean, so there's the DARE program, which is interesting because I don't know why we thought bringing a briefcase full of drugs into a seventh grade classroom was a good idea. Right. [00:01:19] Speaker A: Solid. [00:01:21] Speaker C: But there's actually research that says if you educate people on a problem and you don't solve that actual problem, you actually normalize that problem. Problem. And so while I was told say no to drugs, I found myself at the age of 23, hopelessly addicted, homeless. I'd been kicked out of college, fired from my job, I've been evicted from my home, My car had been repossessed. The only money I had was what I could steal from my friends and I was throwing up blood. So that advice was not working for me. [00:01:47] Speaker D: Sounds bad. [00:01:48] Speaker A: No, it sounds like it went the opposite way. So you hear about the DARE program, and it kind of was like, wow, what is, what, what are these drugs? What are these? You know, what is this? And you experiment. Is that fair to say? [00:01:59] Speaker C: Yeah, well, actually, I tried to be a goody two shoes, follow the program. Yes. For several years. And then what I believe is I was horribly ill equipped to deal with life on life's terms. Like, I feel like people were handed out the instructions on how to deal with life and they just skipped me. And so when I got to college, I just didn't know how to deal with life on life's terms. So the way that I coped with it is I started using drugs. And you know what, if I'm biologically wired and Predisposed to be an addict. That means you should not tell me not to do things because then those are the things I want to do. [00:02:32] Speaker D: Is that the part of the advice that's bad, to just say no part? [00:02:36] Speaker C: Yeah, because that doesn't help you if you're addicted, period. [00:02:41] Speaker A: It simplifies a more prolific problem. [00:02:44] Speaker C: It does. And I think the bigger problem is we will tell addicts to stop doing drugs, but what we need to do is tell them what to start instead. And when I woke up at a rehab facility, they didn't tell me to stop doing drugs. They knew that was my problem. They told me to start working a 12 step program. That's literally a parenting technique. Like my kids are 4 and 6 and they say, don't tell them to stop doing the thing. Tell them what to start instead. And yet we have this entire program. Say no to drugs. Say no to drugs. What do we need to say yes to instead? And for me, once I crossed that threshold to become an addict, it was I had to say yes to working a program or I was going to die. [00:03:21] Speaker A: What was the point where you found a way to come out of that hole? [00:03:28] Speaker C: Well, definitely believe in a higher power. So it wasn't all me, but I will say there was a period of time where I was a pallbearer at a funeral for a fellow addict that had overdosed and died. And I found myself starting to plan for what it was going to be like in that box. I was planning for that outcome. That was what I expect. It was determined. Anything else would have been a surprise for me. However, I eventually had enough consequences that I got thrown a lifeline for my parents. You know, I'm sitting there and I'm homeless, I'm scrounging just for money to try to get drugs, you know, and it's really hard. I'm choosing between am I going to eat today or am I going to get high today? That kind of stuff. And they offer to send me to rehab. And the reason that I went wasn't because I wanted to get clean. It's because I wanted 28 days where I had a roof over my head and I had food and I could figure out how to get more drugs. But like, when you are living on, you know, basically the street, you don't have a lot of margin to try to figure out how you're going to plan things out. And so I thought that was my escape hatch. [00:04:30] Speaker A: You're throwing this lifeline. [00:04:32] Speaker C: Yep. [00:04:32] Speaker A: You go to rehab, what are you introduced to in rehab? [00:04:36] Speaker C: They introduced me to a 12 step program. And for anybody that's familiar, I'm going to respect traditions and concepts. I'm not going to talk specifically about which one or which one I use. But generally speaking, a lot of people are familiar. And there are 12 steps that were created 90 years ago that has helped millions of people lead themselves out of one of the hardest circumstances a human being can find themselves in. And they shared those 12 steps with me. And then they also told me, there's a really good chance that you won't use them. And a tremendous amount of the focus in rehab was how to prevent relapse, because that's obviously one of the biggest challenges. [00:05:09] Speaker A: There's a real good chance you won't use them. Dig more into that. [00:05:14] Speaker C: So I'm sitting there with 19 other guys in my pod. We all believed we needed to work this program or we were going to die. And towards the end, at like essentially graduation, the therapist gets us all together and there's 20 of us and says, I know that you all are inspired to work this program and you believe that you will. But statistically, by one year, 19 out of 20 of you will have relapsed. You have 5% chance of being the one in this room that will actually get to a year. He didn't even tell me that there's only a 10% chance that I can go from a year to 10 years. So right now in front of you, I'm a fricking miracle. It's not because of me, it's because of a program that works. There's a less than 1% chance that you end up in this situation with over 10 years clean. And it's not because the program doesn't work. It's because people won't work the program. [00:06:06] Speaker D: Is that like the biggest misconception that people have with getting over. [00:06:10] Speaker C: We get. Well, I don't. So I'm not a spokesperson for 12 step programs, but as a member, people will say, well, it doesn't work because I know so and so relapsed. Sure. And so if we have a 99% failure rate, people are going to get the conception that it doesn't work. And that is a challenge. But it's not that the program doesn't work. Most programs have some sort of saying that essentially says if you follow these steps, you'll stay clean or sober. And so what I tell my sponsors is it's not a 99% chance that you're going to relapse or this program will fail. It's a 99% chance that you won't follow freaking directions. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Huh? [00:06:43] Speaker C: As simple as that. [00:06:45] Speaker A: So it's literally write your name at the top of the test, read the question, fill in the answer, then go to step two, then go to step three, then go to step four, and do this repeatedly for the rest of your life. [00:06:56] Speaker C: Yep. [00:06:57] Speaker A: And if you deviate from this, it's a problem. [00:07:00] Speaker C: The number one saying that I love in recovery is it's simple, but it isn't easy. Practice rigorous authenticity. Be honest about your problem. Surrender the outcome. Realize that it's fear that's stopping you from doing whatever is the next right thing. And what that fear is, number three, do uncomfortable work. It's the fear of the discomfort of walking into, for me as an addict, life on life's terms. How am I gonna deal with rejection? How am I gonna deal with failure with friends, social anxiety, just going around people in general. How am I gonna deal without a social l? And so I think what a lot of people misconstrue is they think the problem is that people aren't just willing to do hard work. There's plenty of people that are willing to do hard work. I think what we have a challenge, and not only for addicts, just in leadership with children, whatever. It's, how do you do uncomfortable work? And the difference is, hard work is physical. Smart work is intellectual. Uncomfortable work is emotional. And most of us did not grow up learning how to deal with that. Like, how many of us had vulnerability modeled in our households or healthy conflict modeled in our households. We don't know how to do uncomfortable work, so we illogically make decisions that sabotage our lives because we are uncomfortable. [00:08:07] Speaker A: So you begin this path towards recovery. Not to give away too much of the answer, but not only did it lead you to recovery, but it also led you to purpose. [00:08:18] Speaker C: Okay, so it all starts with a conversation with my sponsor. When I had about a year clean, I was working for Dell Computer. I was in their call center, and we had 500 reps. And I was like, rep number 400. I was not doing very well. And when they put us through training, they're like, it's very simple. There are 10 things that you have to do really well if you want to be good at sales. And they said, if you do these on all 30 calls every single day, you will make an insane amount of money being incredibly successful. And yet most people aren't doing it. Like, my manager sat me down. He said, I listened to all 30 of your calls today. Do you know how many of those calls you did? All 10 of the things? Five. But everybody wasn't doing it. And why? Because it's really uncomfortable. My fear just went crazy. It's like, are they going to hang up on me? Am I going to annoy them in my opportunity to get more business? Am I going to lose the business they gave me, whatever it is. And so the fear would make it so uncomfortable to ask those questions. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:17] Speaker C: And so I'm sitting there and I'm talking to my sponsor and I'm complaining to him and he's like, well, the only way you're going to stay clean is if you get good at doing uncomfortable work. So it sounds like this is the perfect situation for you. I was like, you don't understand. Nobody is doing this. And he was like, well, you're not everybody else. You're a drug addict. Your life depends on this. And what I want you to do is I want you to practice rigorous authenticity. Actually ask the questions. I want you to surrender the outcome. Learn how to overcome the fear of the rejection of the client. And I want you to do that when I come to work on all 30 calls. Cause I know if you do that, not only will be more successful at work, I know you're gonna stay clean. And I did. And I went from rep number 400 to rep number one within two months. [00:09:58] Speaker A: Wow. [00:09:59] Speaker C: Not because I'm special, man. Literally because I did the uncomfortable work other people weren't doing. [00:10:03] Speaker A: So you start doing the work and you literally skyrocket to the top. [00:10:07] Speaker C: Yep. [00:10:08] Speaker A: What happens next? [00:10:10] Speaker C: I get promoted to management faster than anybody in the history of Dill Nashville. And they start giving me teams that are not very talented, that are at the bottom. And I start teaching them how to use those three principles to do uncomfortable work. What I thought was saving my life by working at 12 step program, I was learning one of the most advanced and competitively advantaged self leadership systems in the history of humanity. If it can help millions of people lead themselves out of one of the hardest circumstances a human being will ever find themselves in, why can't I help a leader do some uncomfortable work and ask some uncomfortable questions on a phone call or a manager, performance managed people or delegate or whatever, or an entrepreneur, not chasing shiny objects, whatever it is. And so I started teaching my team, which is mostly non recovering addicts, normies, that's what we call you guys. And I started teaching them essentially my version, my translation of the 12 step program. And it made my company explode. [00:11:07] Speaker A: This sounds very much like an epiphany so we grew. [00:11:12] Speaker C: So my company grew 20,000% in six years, became an Inc. 500 business, won best place to work awards, and we were acquir acquired by a publicly traded company. And after we were acquired, I took over a nonprofit where I helped 2000 entrepreneurs a year start a grow business. And my observation was, statistically, the success rate of entrepreneurs to get from zero to a million dollars in revenue, which is kind of the litmus test, was roughly the same as an addict trying to get to one year clean. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Wow. [00:11:39] Speaker C: So I started doing a workshop back in 2017 that was literally, I would just invite people and say, whoever shows up, I just want to teach you this stuff. And I was on the product to professor, so I wanted to create curriculum around it anyhow. And I started doing it, and people started saying, wow, this is revolutionary. And I'm like, man, this isn't revolutionary. When I go to my home group on Friday night, this is literally what every drug addict is talking about. Like, it's kind of crazy that you're thinking that us drug addicts are innovating around leadership, right? Like, that's kind of crazy. [00:12:05] Speaker A: That's. This is kind of makes your mind spin a little bit, right? [00:12:08] Speaker C: It's crazy right now because my brothers and sisters in in recovery think they're walking around with a stigma. And what I know is they're walking around with a superpower. [00:12:18] Speaker A: It's crazy. [00:12:19] Speaker C: Working at the nonprofit, I got asked to do a TED talk. So on Amazon, there's something like 50,000 leadership books. 20,000 written by business executives or entrepreneurs. 10,000 written by ex military. 7,500 written by professional athletes and coaches. 5,000 written by professors or therapists. And you know how many were written by recovering addiction? Yeah. Sharing the process of self leadership. That's saving millions. Zero. [00:12:48] Speaker A: Wow. [00:12:48] Speaker C: And I was like, dude, I think the reason is we think this is a stigma and it's a superpower. And so I want to share this, not only to obviously help others, but honestly, it was. It's my fight to destigmatize recovery and addiction and to carry the message of hope to the addict that still suffers. And so I did that TED Talk, and I guess the world agreed, which I'm really grateful for. And it went viral and it became the number one talk in the history of TEDx Nashville. And I created a program that helps leaders do what they know they should do that would make them crazy successful, that for some reason they're not doing and essentially get them addicted to doing uncomfortable work. Me and my company at Addictive Leadership, we've worked with over 30,000 leaders and we've been able to help leaders reclaim on average 500 hours a year just by doing their uncomfortable work. But more importantly, we're also planting seeds that recovery from addiction is possible. And we're also planting seeds that if you're in recovery, you don't have a stigma, you have a superpower. [00:13:53] Speaker A: When you started to apply this in the business world and in these workshops, what are some of the observations you've seen that tie back to someone in addiction? [00:14:04] Speaker C: So I'll use an example. So, and I don't mean to make light of this, but we've all heard the story of the addict saying, I know I need to stop using. I know my life depends on it. I know I might go to jail. I don't know why I'm not doing it. And then you're sitting there watching the addict and you're saying, dude is so obvious. Your life, you have so much potential. You're so amazing. Your life would change. Just put down the drugs. Well, tell me if you've ever heard this one. A leader is doing lower value tasks that they're not delegating to a direct report because they're scared that they're not. The direct report isn't going to do it the right way. It's going to take too much time to train them. Or they don't want to give up the work because they have identity around it, or they don't want to demotivate somebody. And they keep saying, I know I need to delegate and I know I need to elevate and spend time working on the business, but I don't know exactly why I'm not doing. Or worse. They'll give you these reasons, these rationalizations. Just like I used to use. The reason I'm using drugs is because my girlfriend sucks. The reason I'm using drugs, I can't sleep at night. The reason I'm using drugs, I was just born an addict. I'm a leader. I just don't. I just like, I'm really good at doing the work. I think the challenge is leaders are consuming content at an insane rate where they have an abundance of knowledge of what they should be doing better. I don't think they've cracked the code on how to actually execute it. And I think because they're unwilling to accept the definition of addiction. So check this out. The definition of addiction is doing the same thing repeatedly despite negative consequences. And so leaders are saying yes to low Value tasks and projects. They're saying yes to unrealistic expectations. They're saying yes to meetings. They're doing the pre meeting to prepare for the meeting and doing the post meeting where they schedule more meetings. It's like they're addicted. They're saying yes to shiny objects and strategies or opportunities. I can't tell you how many teams we've worked with that say we have three priorities we need to focus on all year. And then you circle back and they've got priority number four and they've got a really good justification for it. And then they wonder why they aren't making traction towards their strategic plan. But the biggest addiction is suboptimal performance. [00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I was about to say it's. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Suboptimal performance, status quo from a customer. [00:16:15] Speaker C: A teammate, a partner, a vendor. It's not having the difficult conversations to performance manage. And so where everybody else says, oh, you just need to inspire these leaders to do this work. You just need to teach these leaders to do this work. I say, they know what to do. They're not stupid. They've been inspired. Inspiration is cheap through thanks to podcasts, TED talks, whatever. They aren't willing to own the fact that they're addicted. [00:16:43] Speaker A: What are ways that business, businesses, people in their careers can recognize, hey, I'm addicted to suboptimal performance, or I'm on this path towards, you know, not achieving my goals without having to hit rock bottom first? [00:16:58] Speaker C: For most businesses, I don't know that necessarily the addiction to not delegating is going to put them out of business. [00:17:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:05] Speaker C: We think our way out of acknowledging the consequences in very concrete, pragmatic ways. So, like at addictive Leadership, the entire emphasis of our one day workshop is helping people admit that they have a problem. And here's what I have found. A lot of leaders are aware that it's costing them time, but businesses run on quantitative language, literally numbers. Like that's if we have a P and L, you run on numbers and they don't quantify it. They don't ever actually put a number to it. And the similar example is I'm in rehab. And they're like, did you have consequences for your addiction? I'm like, oh, yeah, sure. They're like, okay, well, cool. What we want you to do is to list every single person that you have ever hurt and how you hurt them. And when they made me get to that level, like that block level of clarity of my consequences, my motivation to work that program exponentially multiplied and also over time, my denial and My justification had an antidote. And so the biggest part of our workshop is focusing on getting people to get really clear on how much time they're wasting. And I tell you, 500 hours is the average. And then also we get them more importantly to identify their highest value activity and what would happen if they applied those 500 hours towards that highest value activity. And the stuff seems so simple. What we need to do is acknowledge that we have an addiction to doing and start leading ourselves. But it all goes back to that process of really getting acquainted with what the consequences are. And then the follow up to that is getting honest about what the fear is. And leaders have been trained to say I am fearless. And so that's what helps us. Those two things, us not getting quantitative on the cost and us not identifying the fear allows us to remain in denial. And so we think we don't have a problem. But I'll tell you what, we just found a stat. 51% of employees as of November 2024 are looking for a new job. [00:18:59] Speaker A: Wow. [00:18:59] Speaker C: That's a, that's a, that's a problem if you're an employer, right? [00:19:02] Speaker A: Massive problem. [00:19:03] Speaker B: That's a massive problem. [00:19:05] Speaker A: If you're someone out there who is feeling like they have a problem with drugs and alcohol, what can they do to seek help? What can they do to stem the tide? [00:19:18] Speaker C: I'm going to answer that question, but then I want to answer the question to what if you love that addict? So if there is an addict that, if there's, or there's someone that thinks that they have a challenge, there are resources in your community. There are outpatient treatment centers, inpatient treatment centers. If you can't fund, if you can't afford it, there are state and city funded and federal funded programs that will help pay for your ability to do that. If that's not available in your area, there are 12 STEP programs. And now thanks to the pandemic online, that being said, the scariest thing for me to do was to ask for help. And I didn't want to do that search, right? So I will tell you that I have someone on my team that is dedicated to helping people. So like, I'll give you, I'll just literally just give my email address and just send. If you feel comfortable with me, send me an email. It's mikey waite.com. send me an email, let me know what you're struggling with. Can I answer that question for the family member? [00:20:15] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:20:16] Speaker C: Because family members underestimate what their role is and they overestimate what their role is, and they can do harm and not do good. A lot of times the disease of addiction is isolating for the addict. It's also isolating for the family member. I can't tell you how many times I've done a speaking engagement where someone has come up to me and told me, like, start crying and tell me about a son, a sister, a mother, a father. And they are so powerless over the disease of addiction. And yet when I ask them if they've asked for help, they haven't. And so just as a disease has isolated the act, it's isolated the family member of an addict, or you have the other, which is the family member that is addicted to trying to save the addict. And they're an enabler. If you have a loved one that's an addict, number one, what you have to understand is you are dealing with someone who's insane, Trying to reason with them. Doesn't make sense. And so the exercise I give to the family member of an addict is I say hold your breath for 75 seconds and at the 72nd mark, tell me how sophisticated of a conversation you could have about logic and versus how much your brain is just screaming, I want air. Because that's what it's like, an active addiction. We don't care what the price is. We don't care what the. What the trade off is. We just want the next fix. Second thing, there is only one thing that you can give them, and that is the gift of their consequences. And that is the hardest one. I remember I had a mother that had a son who was living in her basement on the. On the condition that if he relapsed, she was going to kick him out. And someone gave him. Gave her my number. And she called me and she said, he's using, but I can't kick him out. And I said, well, you have to. And she said, but you don't understand. He'll be living on the street, he'll probably die. But I said, you letting him stay in that basement is like you burying him yourself. You can't increase his probability of success, but you can decrease it. Because the only language in my experience that an addict speaks, an active addiction, the only thing that makes us stop and take note and be willing to look at a different way is consequences. And so if you are a loved one, do nothing to dilute a consequence, they get into legal trouble, don't hire the lawyer, don't bail them out, don't they have to feel the pain? Because that's the only Thing that's going to stop them. [00:22:37] Speaker A: But I mean, again, it's very counterintuitive. [00:22:40] Speaker C: Very counterintuitive. And so the third thing, and this is, this is where people are. It's the hardest for them to actually get with. Work your own program and what that means is identify what the resources are in your community for you. I will name check a specific 12 step program that is well known for helping with people called Al Anon. But there are also other types of programs that are offshoots that are like that. And then the cool thing is, is that if you get really clear on taking care of the resources for yourself, you will realize that you aren't in the middle of a sprint trying to get to a movie ending where everything works out. You're in a marathon where unfortunately the likely ending is bad and you need to preserve your energy and get as educated as possible. [00:23:22] Speaker A: It's quite a different set of things to do and quite a different piece of advice than just say no to drugs. [00:23:30] Speaker C: It is. Yeah, it is. [00:23:32] Speaker A: I mean, you're actually saying not, not don't do these things. Do, do these things. [00:23:37] Speaker C: Yes. [00:23:38] Speaker D: And advice in general is how important is like phrasing and how you put it. [00:23:43] Speaker C: That's a good question. I think it depends on whether you're talking to little Michael that wasn't an addict yet versus active addict Michael. I will say that with my kids, I'm not telling them not to do drugs. What I've started is teaching them how to deal with their feelings because that's why an addict uses drugs. They don't know how to use, deal with their feelings. They don't know how to be uncomfortable. One of my favorite things is my daughter. She now says she's like, I'm just going to surrender the outcome. And it's cool to. Yeah, I wrote a book around that and all that kind of stuff. But like, I know that could inoculate her from the disease of addiction. Because that ability to let go of the things that scare you or that make you uncomfortable is so pivotal. So if it's young me, I don't think it's as simple as go do a productive sport. Because how many times have we seen someone pour themselves into work or athletics or ministry and then relax? [00:24:35] Speaker A: It's another addiction. [00:24:36] Speaker C: Right? [00:24:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:37] Speaker C: Because we haven't taught them how to actually feel their feelings and experience the discomfort. Human beings spend the majority of our lives trying to deny our humanity. And that is a lot of the source of what happens with addiction. Right. So. So I wish that someone had taught me how to deal with that. And then once I got hooked, don't tell me to stop doing drugs. Tell me to start working a program. [00:24:59] Speaker A: How does it feel to know that your deepest struggles have become ultimately the path for great successes for other people? [00:25:11] Speaker C: I feel unworthy. I feel like an imposter. And intellectually, I've said that enough that I know that that's not true. But at the same time, I'm also incredibly honored that I get to carry this message. And even though my company helps companies, inside of every company are a bunch of human beings. And 50% of them have a loved one that is an addict. 30% of them have an addiction of some sort. And so we get to sprinkle seeds of hope to everybody as we carry our, you know, message. And, you know, I've experienced not just one miracle, but two. You know, I've got over 10 years clean. That's a miracle. And then with all this professional success, I. I feel incredible survivor's guilt because, you know, even in my community of miracles, I have. I'm not unique, but I have this differentiated level of experience, and I feel a deep sense of responsibility for how to steward that. [00:26:12] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think it's very human. When JB and I were working with Julie Barnes and others at the firm at creating this podcast, we wanted to take the worst of the worst and maybe find a way to translate it into how people find good in that. I'll just put you this way. My guess is you wouldn't change any of it. You would not go back and. And redo your life and have avoided the addiction in the first place. Would you? [00:26:37] Speaker C: Everything that's happened has happened for a reason. And everything, everything is what has led to me being able to be in this booth with you, where I do not have to worry about food, I do not have to worry about water. I don't have to worry about shelter. I don't have to worry about healthcare, transportation, safety, freedom. I don't have to worry about any of that stuff. And this moment is so much better than I ever would have imagined when I was an active addiction. [00:27:04] Speaker A: Well, I, for one, wouldn't change the fact that you were a guest today because your story is awesome, and our listeners are going to gain so much from this. And I just commend you for taking the opportunity you were presented and actually sharing it with others in a way that they can benefit, too, that maybe you're preventing people from being where you were. So thanks for sharing your story today on Our podcast. I really appreciate it, Michael. [00:27:31] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:27:32] Speaker B: All right, so jb, that one went longer than most, but I don't think that we could have cut a single second out of that. [00:27:38] Speaker C: I mean, when. [00:27:39] Speaker B: When someone like Michael opens up about what it really takes to recover from addiction and then loops in how that same process can make you a better leader, a better parent, a better human, you just gotta roll with it. And, I mean, what really sticks out to me is the statistic he shared. Out of 20 people in his rehab group, only one was likely to make it out a year clean. And of those, only 1 in 10 would make it 10 years. [00:28:05] Speaker C: That's. [00:28:06] Speaker B: That's 1 in 200 shot. [00:28:08] Speaker C: He's not just a survivor. [00:28:09] Speaker B: He's like, literally an anomaly. And instead of coasting on that, he actually built a whole purpose behind it. [00:28:16] Speaker D: Yeah, I keep thinking about the phrase he used doing the uncomfortable work, because that implies, you know, way beyond addiction. You know, most of us avoid the tough stuff because it's messy or it's awkward or it's scary, and that's usually the work that actually changes us. [00:28:30] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Whether you're leading a team or just trying to lead yourself through life, you're going to hit resistance. And Microsoft framework this rigorous authenticity and surrendering the outcome and doing the uncomfortable work. It's deceptively simple, but it takes real courage to live that way. [00:28:47] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I love the way he said, you know, recovery isn't just about stopping doing something. That's really what the whole episode was about. It's about starting something better. And that principle really translates to everything. [00:28:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the heart of it. [00:28:59] Speaker C: And. [00:29:00] Speaker B: And no doubt that if you're listening right now, this one probably encouraged you to face something you've been avoiding. So go ahead and jump right into that. And remember that change, real change, usually lives on the other side of discomfort. Thanks for being with us. We'll be back next week with a brand new guest, a fresh piece of terrible advice, and another story that might just shift your perspective right here on the worst advice I ever got. [00:29:26] Speaker C: It.